50nl AQ played weak!

[danny8]

SB is 35/25/1.8 (150) hes positionally aware.. but he does call raises oop with v.marginal (bordering on junk) hands

CO 24/7/0.8 (100) havnt really noticed him much at all

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BTN: $52.80
SB: $53.25
BB: $43.65
UTG: $56.15
Hero (MP): $64.70
CO: $56.10

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.75, 6 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, CO calls $1.75, BTN folds, SB calls $1.50, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($5.75, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif [3/images/graemlins/club.gif] ($5.75, 3 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $3.50</font>, Hero calls $3.50, CO calls $3.50

<font color="black">River:</font> A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif [4/images/graemlins/spade.gif] ($16.25, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero...

i guess i should start by betting the flop.. i hate these flops, i always seem to see monsters under the bed and fear 2 pair.

should i bet ~$10 on the river?

all comments appreciated, thanks!

[allium]

Bet the flop!!!

Raise turn for info.
As played I say 8-10 on river, and fold to any sick action.

[crushednuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop!!!

Raise turn for info.
As played I say 8-10 on river, and fold to any sick action.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Zagga]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop!!!

Raise turn for info.
As played I say 8-10 on river, and fold to any sick action.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Big Poppa Smurf]

Can someone tell me what reasonable "info" we get raising the turn here?

[evazan]

As played theres nothing wrong with just calling the turn bet. No need to build up a big pot on this wet board and your not getting value from anything you beat. After sb checks the river I'd bet about 8-10 and fold to any resistance. You have to bet this flop though.

[allaboutmyfetti]

h/u this flop is ok to check behind but 3-way pot I'd usually bet for protection. Villians combined could have like 10 outs against us (probably less, worse case they each have a unique 5 outer or osmethin) and I'd rather not give a free card to that range.

[allium]

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone tell me what reasonable "info" we get raising the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

not really, turn call is prob fine in this spot

[crushednuts]

I can

The turn bet is relatively weak. The raise tells us whether he is slowplaying a flopped hand or not. I would much prefer a bet on the flop but, as played, I would raise the turn to determine whether he flopped a monster or not.

What do you do if you call his 3.50 on the turn and then he 1/2 or 3/4 pots the river?? call again?? he could easily be doing this w/ AJ etc. trying to pick off a worse ace or be doing it for value with a huge hand. If you are planning on calling a certain amount on the river, you should raise that on the turn IMO because aggressive poker is winning poker. I would not turn into a calling station b/c this flop is dangerous

[davidyang]

Raising turn here is terrible. There is little to no value at all. Turn call is fine here. Raising for information is extremely overrated and in this spot it makes absolutely no sense to do so.

[Xanta]

[ QUOTE ]
I can

The turn bet is relatively weak. The raise tells us whether he is slowplaying a flopped hand or not. I would much prefer a bet on the flop but, as played, I would raise the turn to determine whether he flopped a monster or not.

What do you do if you call his 3.50 on the turn and then he 1/2 or 3/4 pots the river?? call again?? he could easily be doing this w/ AJ etc. trying to pick off a worse ace or be doing it for value with a huge hand. If you are planning on calling a certain amount on the river, you should raise that on the turn IMO because aggressive poker is winning poker. I would not turn into a calling station b/c this flop is dangerous

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling on the turn is good, I think that raising is worse.

Our hand is pretty underrepped if we check flop call turn. Villain will fire again with his 2pairs or AJ or whatever but he'll probably also fire again with his Ax because our hand looks so weak. I'm certainly calling up to a 2/3-3/4 psb on the river and I expect to be ahead a little over 50-60% of the time.

Raising the turn allows him to play perfectly against us IMO. He's more inclined to dump an Ax hand to a turn raise than a river bet. He's also going to 3-bet the hands that beat us frequently, or try to extract another bet on the river by just calling.

There is an argument to be made for trying to pick up the money in the pot, but I don't really like it. Let him keep firing with a hand he thinks is best.

[Stake Monster]

You didn't know what to do because you didn't bet on the flop.

You might be drawing very thin on the turn and might have to pay off someone's big hand on the river.

You need to show more aggression to really know where you're at, and you might just win the pot right there if they are both drawing or holding a weak pair.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
I can

The turn bet is relatively weak. The raise tells us whether he is slowplaying a flopped hand or not. I would much prefer a bet on the flop but, as played, I would raise the turn to determine whether he flopped a monster or not.

What do you do if you call his 3.50 on the turn and then he 1/2 or 3/4 pots the river?? call again?? he could easily be doing this w/ AJ etc. trying to pick off a worse ace or be doing it for value with a huge hand. If you are planning on calling a certain amount on the river, you should raise that on the turn IMO because aggressive poker is winning poker. I would not turn into a calling station b/c this flop is dangerous

[/ QUOTE ]

TY FOR YOUR FUTURE MONIES

[Genz]

As played, check the river. CO overcalling the turn bet isn't nice. If they both were drawing at something, they missed and are less likely to pay off. If they weren't, you are probably crushed.

And I like the passive line because I'm sandwiched. Everyone is talking about raising against SB. We have CO still behind us who cold called a preflop raise and is a passive player. We have to fold out both guys if we want to take the pot down on the turn.

[orange]

jesus raising for info...we need some sort of sticky in the faq regarding that statement.

OP,
bet the flop all day. dont give your opponents free cards. alot of their range is stuff like pair + draws (ie. KJ or whatever) and time to get some value before a scare card kills our action.

anyways, given that you checked, i dont really mind flat calling turn, raising is fine as well. river is an easy value bet. $8 works.

[Pirelli]

Raising the turn "for information" is terrible. To knock out the player behind isn't as bad, but I still like the call.

As others have said, 7 - 10 on the end is good, fold to a raise.

[Loc0Loc0]

[ QUOTE ]
I can

The turn bet is relatively weak. The raise tells us whether he is slowplaying a flopped hand or not. I would much prefer a bet on the flop but, as played, I would raise the turn to determine whether he flopped a monster or not.

What do you do if you call his 3.50 on the turn and then he 1/2 or 3/4 pots the river?? call again?? he could easily be doing this w/ AJ etc. trying to pick off a worse ace or be doing it for value with a huge hand. If you are planning on calling a certain amount on the river, you should raise that on the turn IMO because aggressive poker is winning poker. I would not turn into a calling station b/c this flop is dangerous

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising is only going to give u a small pot to win and a bigger pot to loose..
Only better hands are going to call.
Floating will be better.

Bet river is good though after SB shows weakness

[Kimo White Devil]

*grunch*

You raised preflop. you get 2 cold-callers. You should c-bet that flop since it hit you and also to c-bet future A-high flop against cold callers. In a session when you c-bet A-high flop early on and you get to showdown with an A in your hand nice kicker, people will fold to your c-bet on future A-high flop even if you only raised with 77.

Ok onto that hand, c-bet the flop for future hands. As played on the flop, raise on the turn.
As played on the turn, bet the river 2/3 pot for value, except if you saw villain make check-raises often before. He could try it since there 2 callers after his turn bet, and checking would induce either one of you to bet and make him crAI.

[Drainbamaged]

Would someone care to sum up the arguments against raising for information for a beginner?

[munkey]

I sometimes do this check flop 3way TP but not with 3 broadway cards - bet flop and go from there, as played I'm definitely betting river -proably 1/2 as I don't think villans' have that much.

[BobAllinSki]

[ QUOTE ]
Would someone care to sum up the arguments against raising for information for a beginner?

[/ QUOTE ]

The main argument here is even if he is slowplaying you can likely get to a showdown for less than the cost of a raise.

Why pay to find out your are likely screwed when a call-call line costs the same or less and you get to see a showdown, i.e. dont get bluffed, and sometimes catch the Q or J to win the pot.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
Would someone care to sum up the arguments against raising for information for a beginner?

[/ QUOTE ]

The info you get is not accurate enough for the price you pay. When people call your raise, you know just as little as you did before. Only when they fold you know, that you probably had the best hand or that your opponents are weak. When they reraise, you MIGHT know that you are behind. But when villain is aggro, you still don't know if he is bluffing.

So in the huge majority of cases you end up in a huge pot without really knowing anything. So "information" can be one factor among some others like value or bluffing but should never be the only reason to raise.

[Drainbamaged]

Thanks for the responses regarding the information raise. I suspected those would be the arguments, but I appreciate confirmation.

[danny8]

thanks for all the comments! i realised i [censored] this hand up on the flop.. i dont like raising the turn. i screwed up the river by checking too /images/graemlins/blush.gif:

SB had k5s, and the other guy mucked

[kayfish77]

i like your line. we maximized profits. on a serious note bet half pottish on the river. the sb cant possibly be that strong, hopefully he gets curious and calls.