AA smooth call in position pf

[marvin_1935]

villain is LVcardjunkie who runs about 15/12

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25./$0.50.
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $56.30
UTG+1: $36.20
CO: $53.25
Hero: $80.45
SB: $77.50
BB: $60.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $5.75</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($12, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: K/images/graemlins/club.gif ($12, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $8</font>, Hero calls.

River: 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($28, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: $28

will QQ/JJ ever look me up on the river? thoughts?

[KEW]

PF=meh..I will smooth calls sometimes but usually just go ahead and 4 bet...

As played BET the flop...Turn call is good..When checked to on river value bet...Easy fold to a check raise...Yes QQ/JJ will look you up EVERY time..

[barryc83]

I like the way it was played. I call pf all day against guys like this bc if you 4bet he only calls with KK most likely. As played, I bet the flop, Ill guess you checked behind fearing the c/r. Turn call is fine IMO. On the river I put out a smallish value bet like $14. I doubt this guy would check the river with a K and bc theres 2 Ks out ther he might look you up with QQ/JJ, the only hand that beats you that calls a river bet is TT IMO.

[Michael Fish]

There's a lot to be said for smooth calling AA to a three bet from this type of player as JJ+ are more than likely to fold out. If you repop you're basicly giving away value you can extract on later streets from dominated hands.

Post flop I'm usually leading out, calling the turn and value betting the river for about half the pot. QQ sometimes looks you up JJ less so. I think it would be pretty unusual for a K to check the river. If you're confident of the guys 3betting range preflop being pretty standard AK KK QQ JJ it's pretty easy to rule out pocket pairs outside this by the river.

[Genz]

preflop is a little depending on the opponent. Many of these tight players can't release a hand they 3bet when they actually get one. So I think you will be called by JJ-QQ, AKs pretty often so that a 4bet has value.

The flop is pretty ugly and I'm suspicious because the preflop reraiser only checks. He probably has either QQ or KK and is either scared or slowplaying. I like the rest of the hand.

[Piece of Cake]

Prf: I 4bet but will consider a smooth call since you're in position.

Flop: I bet but the check behind definitely deserves some consideration. In fact I like it a lot sionce I don't know how to react to a raise and am not willing to play for stacks here.

Turn: Definite call at this point.

River: Bet 14-18 &amp; fold to push. I don't think many players at this level can read a value bet and then push you off the hand by checkraising a worse hand. If he pushes back he'll have the K.

[dd323]

I think not value betting the river is criminal.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]

River: Bet 14-18 &amp; fold to push. I don't think many players at this level can read a value bet and then push you off the hand by checkraising a worse hand. If he pushes back he'll have the K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Will villain call with a worse hand? What hand will that be? QQ or JJ only, probably. The board is double paired and OP raised preflop. I think that the chances are very slim that he will call with such a pair. So he'll fold when we beat him and we throw money away when we are beat. I think the free SD is just fine here.

[so sick bro]

ace hi rly might pay you off on the river here as played

[Genz]

Villain reraised preflop. So it would only be AQ. That would be a very slim value bet and certainly read dependant.

[Piece of Cake]

[ QUOTE ]
Will villain call with a worse hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we've underrepped our hand considerably here.

The question is whether:

his calling range &gt; range that beats us (assuming he won't reraise bluff)

I guess it's pretty close but I think a lot of the range that beats us has played this hand differently so he's mostly sitting on QQ/JJ, random aces, and assorted air.

Is there any hand that beats us that will call, but not raise? A9?

[allaboutmyfetti]

what exactly is the reasoning for not betting the flop and why does everyone like it?

[eigenvalue]

It's terrible to not bet that flop. It's even more terrible that everyone except you likes it.

This is a flop where I will shove most times, because it looks so much like a flush draw with an SC and it would get called by hands like AK, QQ, JJ etc. Of course we are drawing thin to KK.

This hand has to be ended on the flop, there are too many cards we don't want to see on the next streets so get it in now or give it up. Checking behind and "value betting" on later streets is terrible, terrible, terrible. They can play the lottery as well if they like those lines.

[Piece of Cake]

It depends on opponents 3bet range in the SB. I think all the people supporting the check have him on AQ+ and TT+. Either we're way behind or not getting any action. Most of the hands we beat are drawing to few outs and are scared of the board QQ,JJ,AQ.

I bet by default, but am trying to rationalize a check here.

[allaboutmyfetti]

I think a check here is bad and "he's not calling with worse hands" over-rationalizes this bad play.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...1&amp;fpart=all (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=ssplnlpoker&amp;Number=964158 0&amp;page=1&amp;fpart=all)

fwiw i think AK makes up a decent portion of villian's range and this is not necessarily WA/WB.

Bet the flop.

[VPIP100]

I raise this pre to around 20, I don't think he would fold the most of this range, so build the pot when you are ahead and shove any flop. Calling is fine if he is a 3-bet aggresive monkey or if you think post flop value &gt; preflop value, but I dont think this is the case here.

[MusashiStyle]

this is pretty wierd hand postflop. I would just 4 bet preflop so u don't get into this situation. and yeah it does look like qq or jj so value bet is good folding to check raise.

[Piece of Cake]

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw i think AK makes up a decent portion of villian's range and this is not necessarily WA/WB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I lose sight of the obv. I don't know why AK just disappeared from his possible range - complete mistake on my part. Although - it is not as likely as usual due to 3 of the 8 cards that make that being used.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
what exactly is the reasoning for not betting the flop and why does everyone like it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot control. If we are behind already, we don't care about free cards, because it can't get any worse when a spade or broadway falls. If he has a smaller PP, we don't care much either since he is drawing to a set or a gutshot. The only hand we don't want to give a free card to is AsKs and AsQs if that is in his range. And we prevent getting check/raised by a set or AsKs.

[boycalledroy]

How many things are wrong with this hand,

1 - I really think you should 4 bet preflop, I have a feeling you will get called by QQ/KK/AA/AK, and I'm pretty sure the villain has one of these hands.

2 - Why the hell not bet the flop, AK makes up a massive part of his range here, you are betting for value, you are making him pay over the odds to beat your hand, instead of giving him a free card to spike and beat your hand. Yeah if he had KK its WA/WB, but if he had AK and you shut him out right there and he folded and never spiked his 3rd king on the turn, then you have won a pot you should not have.

3 - As played I feel we have to bet the river, if he had a King he would of come out betting the turn. I think you will get looked up by QQ/JJ here because simply he won't think you have AA and won't credit you for a King. I am also betting so he doesnt KNOW I smooth call him with AA preflop, I'd prefer this hand to be resolved without a showdown personally.

4 - As played I'm probably folding at the turn.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
1 - I really think you should 4 bet preflop, I have a feeling you will get called by QQ/KK/AA/AK, and I'm pretty sure the villain has one of these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

have any of you played with this guy? we've played together quite a bit and he doesn't respect a open button raise in the least. there's a ton of stuff he'll fold if i 4-bet. obv, if i'm oop i'll 4-bet and obv if he's an unknown or looser i'll 4-bet. i like smooth calling pf vs this villain.


[ QUOTE ]
2 - Why the hell not bet the flop, AK makes up a massive part of his range here, you are betting for value, you are making him pay over the odds to beat your hand, instead of giving him a free card to spike and beat your hand. Yeah if he had KK its WA/WB, but if he had AK and you shut him out right there and he folded and never spiked his 3rd king on the turn, then you have won a pot you should not have.

[/ QUOTE ]

we're HU and he 3bet oop pf. the only flush draw he could really have is AQ/KQ. i can't see him checking either of these unless it was w/ the intention of crai. this villain is also betting the flop w/ AK. when he checks the flop i put his range at 88+ and air. vs this range i like a check, i have one pair and don't want to bloat the pot w/ 2 streets of betting left.

[ QUOTE ]
3 - As played I feel we have to bet the river, if he had a King he would of come out betting the turn. I think you will get looked up by QQ/JJ here because simply he won't think you have AA and won't credit you for a King. I am also betting so he doesnt KNOW I smooth call him with AA preflop, I'd prefer this hand to be resolved without a showdown personally.

[/ QUOTE ] i 100% agree that not betting this river is "crimnal" as another poster pointed out. betting 14 and folding to a raise will get paid off by QQ/JJ a large majority of the time. i don't mind showing down AA here

[ QUOTE ]
4 - As played I'm probably folding at the turn.

[/ QUOTE ] this is burning money. the whole reason i checked the flop was because i'm crushing his range and want him to bluff at me. i was HAPPY to see the K on the turn.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

A few things:

1) Preflop is ok, lots of people don't 4bet here. Honestly it depends on how often you 4bet other hands and what your range for doing that is.

2) Once you smoothcall preflop the rest of this hand is standard imo, checking the flop here gets you more value when ahead and losses less when behind since you can get more value out of QQ/JJ, and you are probably stacking off against KK and 99/TT since he will play them like AK here.

3) river check is ok depending how light you think he will look you up, You can probably get away with a wide range of river bets here, a psb might get a hero call if he thinks you are bluffing. but I'd just bet like $12 or something.

[allaboutmyfetti]

bah I still think checking this flop isn't the best play (not horribly wrong). The board is really wet and there are SOME worse hands that are calling a bet. Also, the fact that this is a blind battle adds a few more marignal hands into villian's range (including suited cards, 2 broadways etc.) I think all the flop-checkers are being way too narrow with villian's range ... (you're not even including AK for pete's sake).

[Big Poppa Smurf]

fetti,

I took AK out because I figured it would bet such a wet board most of the time.

[tisthefire]

if you're happy the king fell i don't see why you check behind on river, if you don't give him credit for a king then you're checking behind for fear of a nine or pocket tens? seems quite nitty to me