QQ gets 3bet preflop and I call down [Archive]

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Bowlboy

03-22-2007, 02:32 AM

Villain is 23/11/2.14 over 168 hands though I dont have any reads because I didnt remember him and I had'nt taken any notes.

This is a tough spot for me and I need to figure out how to play these situations better so comments on all streets are of course welcome and appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($1.65)
UTG ($10.55)
MP ($8.35)
Hero ($11.05)
Button ($63.25)
SB ($10.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.4, Button calls $0.40, SB raises to $1.4, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, Button folds.

Preflop I think is standard. Does anybody ever 4bet QQ pre?
I dont think this guy is 3betting light. I'm assuming that AA, KK, the very unlikely QQ, JJ, AK and maybe AQ are part of his range. The AQ is iffy so maybe just AQs.

Flop: ($3.30) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Is this call ok? AK leads out on this flop like always. I think that as played I need to see what happens on the turn. There is'nt that much evidence saying my ladies are'nt good at this point. That faint voice of reason however says they are'nt, but I tell it to stfu and stop being so pessimistic.

Turn: ($7.30) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $3.5, Hero calls $3.50.

Never really thought this at the time the hand was being played but pretty sure this is'nt AK now. Though I'm still busy trying to tell 'reason' to f-off I'm busy makin money off my pair. The turn bet looks like it might possibly be a 'hope you fold now cuz all i have is A-high' bet but then it again it's equally likely to be one of those 'hahaha, if he calls this he'll have to call on the river' bets.

River: ($14.30) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets $3.25 (All-In), Hero calls $3.25.

River is a no brainer as played. But how did I get here?

Final Pot: $20.80

prodonkey

03-22-2007, 02:35 AM

I think you got taken to valuetown

Bowlboy

03-22-2007, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you got taken to valuetown

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, I dont need to be told. Really just looking to figure out when and where I get away from this. Obviously I'm going to lose a few bucks in this situation. I'm thinking that the call on the flop is meh, and the turn is spew. Does anybody fold this flop? Raising doesnt seem like a good idea because it would pot commit me whenever I'm beaten.

What's the best line here?

lemming

03-22-2007, 03:15 AM

I got in a similar situation few days ago. had Queens, raised preflop, got raised and I called, intending to CRAI on a not so dangerous flop, he showed Kings. I think if you pushed here, similar thing would have happened...

What was your intention then, smooth-calling preflop? Folding if an A or K pops up?

I have been asking myself the same question... Should I have been raising preflop again, to see if he pushes all-in and maybe fold? But people tend to do this in such limits as well with 10s or Jacks. So laying Queens down on such low limits in a cashgame, when playing against an unknown... Dunno, don't really like it... But pushing sux as well, ran into Kings about 3 times only yesterday! That's just poker /images/graemlins/smile.gif

prodonkey

03-22-2007, 03:22 AM

I dunno.. I'd honestly have a hard time folding this.. can't fold the river.. can't fold the turn.. I'd probably raise the flop, but hell by the time you raise you're committing 1/2 your stack. The only thing you're beating is JJ though and I doubt he played it like this.

raising flop and folding to reraise is only way you're ever going to lay this hand down.. or 4 betting preflop and folding to a push. I really don't see you being ahead.. I'm interested in seeing some more responses.

yeotaJMU

03-22-2007, 03:31 AM

i agree that the only way u can fold to AA or KK here is by 4 betting preflop and folding to a push. anything else and you are basically stuck. at this low limit though its hard not to get stacked on this hand.

Skleice

03-22-2007, 08:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raising flop and folding to reraise is only way you're ever going to lay this hand down

[/ QUOTE ]

I would make a small pop on the flop to gain info. Maybe double his raise and if he reraises you, dump it. If here merely calls though, you really don't know where you stand on the turn. Tough spot. Would be much easier if stacks were deeper.

03-22-2007, 08:53 AM

I also thinnk this is valuetown. Happens to me way to often too.

CanYouCallThis

03-22-2007, 08:58 AM

At these stakes, I'm getting stacked 50% of the times here if I call the 3bet preflop, and no A/K hits...

So I'dd 4bet it preflop.

As played preflop, I would probably consider a raise on the flop to see where I'm at. I'dd def either raise the flop or fold to a second barrel on the turn if a blank hits...

Bowlboy

03-22-2007, 01:44 PM

Thanks everyone for your input. Still cant get this hand out of my head. The guy had Aces. Truthfully, I put him on Aces or Kings preflop which is why I'm not 4betting this. Against a different villain who was more aggressive and if stacks were deeper I'd 4bet this, fold to a push, and shove any flop without an ace or king if called.

In this hand however, 4betting and getting called would make it really tough to get away from on the flop if an ace or king flops. This guy seems decent. definitely not a donk. I think the only hands he could be 3betting with that fold to a 4bet might be AQs and JJ. I think he'll call or push with AK. Say he pushes with AK 30% and I have to fold. The times he doesnt push he still flops top pair like 36%? This seems to actually make me a dog against AK here. Thoughts on that?

I think my best line against this guy is call preflop, peel on the flop and fold to a 2nd barrell as this guy will likely check AK on the turn...

Edit: About putting him on Aces or Kings preflop I should mention that at the time I was very suspicious/fearful of AA/KK but lacked the conviction to go with it and fold.

MusashiStyle

03-22-2007, 01:49 PM

I think preflop is ok. Shoving preflop is also ok.
That flop is really bad though because alot of the mid pairs that you are beating have hit a set. So now the only thing you are beating is JJ. So I would seriously consider folding the flop. Definitely don't call on the flop. shove or fold.

Gustav

03-22-2007, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop I think is standard. Does anybody ever 4bet QQ pre?
I dont think this guy is 3betting light. I'm assuming that AA, KK, the very unlikely QQ, JJ, AK and maybe AQ are part of his range. The AQ is iffy so maybe just AQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very curious how you reconciled this read, which you sound very certain of, with the way you played it postflop..

Warteen

03-22-2007, 02:46 PM

Overpairs can be tough. Maybe raise on the flop and if he comes over the top or calls, shut down. That will win the hand against AK, at least, and save you a little bit against AA-KK.