kinda LC but not really, running cold and adjusting.

[the machine]

so as a few uNLers know ive been in a albeit short, but crappy downswing. for example, over 1k hands last night i picked up 103 and 102 suited an unsuited a total of 23 times. while AK and AQ i had a total of 9 times. which seems very trivial, blah blah meow chow. my point is is that a few times when i have steal opportunities like AJ from teh button or 98s squeeze play from a blind im facing 3 bets from 2 other players. so obv i just fold

the problem im facing is that when i dont have hands its folding around to me and i obv muck.

so my game has gone from a standard 22-17 VPIP and 18-15 PFR down to 14-10 VPIP and 10-8 PFR. some limping is due to over active players where i call with small pairs and some SC's in position.

so obv a decent amount of my PFR's get respect. on the ones that dont, esp when i have air for some reason arent getting much respecct, but thats neither here nor there.

anywhooooo, my purpose here it to get some feed back on what you do when you are running super card dead to stay active. its def hurting my image because i seem liike a weak nit and im not getting enough action on my big hands.

do you guys just start raising up absolute trash when in position to stay active. in other words if you see that you are running like 14/12 10/7 etc would you feel the need to pop a 93o from the button just to steal blinds and stay active?? folds to you in sb do you start rasing up any 2???

[jonyy6788]

wow....about the lowest i will ever go is 12/12....this is only if there's huge fishies in the blinds and a bunch of limpers in front.

STEPS:
a) move down further
b) revamp your game
c) set your mind that you're not getting 3-bet light...if you're getting 3-bet light LEAVE the table
d) if you're on too big of a downswing, I'd consider there is something wrong with my game.
e) Get the hell out of Full Tilt

also, feel free to AIM me...wburgknights33

[the machine]

im playin 50NL on a 40BI bankroll.

10BI swing in 1k hands, 90% just 2 outters and runner runner srsly

how the hell did you know i was at FT

[breandan]

omg...if ur running that tight and ur getting 3 bet light for gods sake dont leave the table...i mean seriously ur openning range is so tight they're retarded to 3 bet u light but if they are relish and take their moneys with glee...other than that i dont know man...is this 6 max? 14-10 is sick tight for 6 max...take a break come back and start raising it up and playing well post flop and stuff.

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
im playin 50NL on a 40BI bankroll.

10BI swing in 1k hands, 90% just 2 outters and runner runner srsly

how the hell did you know i was at FT

[/ QUOTE ]

hands u've converted....I lost $900 (some tilt) in 3 days at NL50 on FT. Don't feel bad, but you're obv. having mental problems with the game right now if you're playing 10/8

[breandan]

step 1.move to full ring and play the exact same way (i.e. 12/10, 10/8)

Step 2. ??????

Step 3. profit.

[the machine]

yeah it does seem sick tight but its actually not that tight. im raising up all good hands in position and out lowes like KQo OOP, all SC's from late position but im srsly card dead. my point being when youre totally card dead whats your plan of action to stay active and not be a nit. currently on 2 tables im running 14/12 and 16/12. ive also been sitting in games with opponents who are VPIP of 40 or higher, and alot are pretty aggro, which may be the reasoning for me tightening up so much. but on the same token i am running super cold

[jonyy6788]

there's nothing wrong with some variation in your play based on table conditions....I play about 17/13, but that can be anywhere from 23/21 to 12/10 from table to table.

I'm playing nL50 on a 49BI bankroll....

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
there's nothing wrong with some variation in your play based on table conditions....I play about 17/13, but that can be anywhere from 23/21 to 12/10 from table to table.

I'm playing nL50 on a 49BI bankroll....

[/ QUOTE ]

Im playing with a....


61 BI BR. LOSER I AM.

[breandan]

i know this is totally against 2+2 standards but when im at a table with a couple 40+ aggros im cold-calling a fair amount in position...but i usually only play 4 tables at most so my reads are usually quite good.

[KEW]

First thing I do when running bad is tighten PF and do not C-bet as often...When running bad C-bets get looked up very lightly...If they are looking you up light you will need to fire 2 barrels or check raise to compensate...Unlikely to need to go this far at $50NL..

I doubt you are getting 3 bets light as often as you think...It's just part of running bad...When I am running bad and think I am getting 3 bet light and I "make a stand" only to find its not light..

Do not open with trash just to maintain PT numbers..This is lighting $$$$$ on fire...

From your OP it sounds as if a great deal of frustration is setting in..Take a day or 2 off and watch some of the poker videos in the stickies...When ever I fell myself getting to tight I watch videos not hand postings...Videos "usually" present a more Laggy style

[jonyy6788]

I guess this post just makes me want to post something I've been considering posting for a long time.

Bankroll doesn't mean [censored]. Moving up is more about beating the level you are at. Also, many people use the magical number of 2k for NL100, FFS that is not enough unless you happen to run good off the bat and/or you are ready for that level. Most people at 2k bankrolls are not ready for NL100.

In case you guys haven't the noticed, the games are changing. How many times do you think you can get three streets of profit with tptk from a decent player. The answer is not many. While the games are changing (I've been playing 6max since Fristaments), they aren't necessarily any more difficult than they were when I started 6max. Everyone has revamped their games and you may find 1-2 fish at a table. The problem is, everyone has taken over the "accepted" style and nobody has adapted to counteract it. My friends and I have noticed the changed and we have adapted our game to the best possible fashion we see at the moment. In a couple months, you will probably see another change in styles, and then more adaptation will be needed. I guess the whole point of this post is that ABC pokah ain't quite what it was 6 months ago.

[the machine]

thats a great point johnny. i dont play my game exact ABD vanilla TAG poker. the majority of it is done that way, but i do make plays aside from the standard cbet. agains tthe right opponets i do float in position, or raise with air if they are frequent cbettors. i dont think its a matter of time frame for people adjusting and such. i feel you have to adjust constantly. like KEW said, if you are running cold maybe you shouldnt cbet as much. maybe you should loosen up with uber nits on your left. loosen up a bit with te maniac on your right, just dont play a big pot without the stones. he can steal the small ones because wehen you hit hard his stack is yours.



i guess what this all boils down to is im running card dead and cant find a way to adjust to not being so nitty. it esp hurts when there are a few decent TAG's at teh table who are very observant.

[jonyy6788]

over how many hands do you think you are card dead?

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
over how many hands do you think you are card dead?

[/ QUOTE ]

=(

thats the thing. its probably just staistical variance. id say around 2k hands.

heres my march. run good 2800 hands. +10BI. 3 nights ago get good cards get snapped off. last 2 sessions, lose with a efw decent hands and sets but run super nitty mostly due to bad cards.

tonight wasnt as bad as last night but still pretty beat, and not much action with my big hands.

i understand this is suuuuuuper short term, but while at teh table you really cant play your A game.


so aside from this probably just being BS variance blah blah, if you find yourself running card dead, do you loosen up to get action on your big hands? do you just wait the variance out and play a tight game?

[Steam Iron]

[ QUOTE ]

e) Get the hell out of Full Tilt


[/ QUOTE ]

What's terribly wrong with Full Tilt?

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

e) Get the hell out of Full Tilt


[/ QUOTE ]

What's terribly wrong with Full Tilt?

[/ QUOTE ]

riggers /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Big Poppa Smurf]

machine,

who cares? this is no limit baby. Just raise hands from the button when you feel like it. MY vpip fluctuates like crazy based on my mood basically. I played 39/29 the other night because I felt like it; sometimes I'll play like 18/12 or something if I don't feel like lagging it up. So just relax and go with the flow and just steal more when you feel like it.

The real problem here is you are just running bad and letting it affect your game. If you are carddead you are carddead, villains aren't really going to notice anyway.

[mathemagician54]

if it's just running bad, then stick to your normal game. A few bad beats is nothing to you if you're playing with a 40 BI roll. but if you look back and misplayed some hands, it's other things that need to change. this is coming from someone who lost a significant portion of his roll yesterday.

[the machine]

yeah i understand where ur coming from. im not worried about going busto. im saying where you run at a table 5 orbits and cant raise a single hand, you finally pick up a raiseable hand but also not strong hand in position and there are raisers in front of you.

point being its been hard to give action due to crap holdings and in turn i get no action when i want it, which is understandable from villains eyes. didnt know if i could adjust something or if people would PFR ATC on hte button just to get in the game a little more when running like this. FWIW there were times when i would raise ATC from the button and because ive been playing so tight i was able to pick up blinds.

i guess theres upsides to both situations

[avfletch]

Personally I don't worry that much about staying in the game. If I run card dead for a bit then I'm card dead. You know the second you raise button then cutoff half the people at your table are going to go ZOMG STEALER!

Just relax, play your regular game and keep looking for +EV spots.

[Debaser]

Ok I'm probably gonna get shouted down for this but...

IMO playing 14/12 or even 18/16 at 50nl is just leaving money on the table. Whenever I start up a session I look for players this tight and try to sit to their right because I know I'm not going to get any hassle from them. If you 3-bet me pf, I'm outta there unless I have a monster but playing that tight you're not going to be doing it that often.

The players I hate having position on me are the ones who play something like 30/10 or even 35/10. They'll call lots of raises pf in pos. and lots of flop bets and it puts you in really crappy spots on the turn. I've recently totally changed the way I play from like 18/12 to something like 30/12 and it's worked wonders. You can steal lots of pots in pos. on the turn and you get paid off on your excellent hands more frequently.

Players in general at 50nl are so bad that's you'd be better giving up a little (or even a lot) preflop to outplay them on later streets. Just try to be a little unpredictable with it. Even try min-raising occasionally. If you do it with suited connectors and sometimes with AK/big pairs noone knows wtf you have and you'll be marked down as a fish by the '2+2 4bb + 1bb per limper anything else is terrible' crowd, and I imagine on FT there will be a lot of those.

Just give it a try on one table for a couple of hours and see how it goes. Play more hands, give yourself more decisions and play more poker. Plus it's a lot more fun /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[matrix]

Whats your attempt to steal blinds % overall - and whats it running at now?

Table select goot. Seat select better. Sit at tables with tight players in the 2 seats to your left.

Raise OTB/CO ATC once every 3 orbits or so - and CB at the flop no matter what falls. (provided you're HU on the flop)

Look back through PT - see how often a button raise + a flop CB takes down the pot uncontested.

I have my own vpip/pfr stats and my att to steal stat for each session displayed on the table - I try and keep these numbers around about 20/17 30% - some sessions I run hot and play 30/20 some sessions are cold and it drops 18/15 20% - but as long as it's close to my "standard game" I don't worry too much about it.

Poker is about adjusting to the players at your table and playing them more than the cards you get dealt. If I find I'm at a juicy table with lots of loose passives I nit it up and only play the good stuff and value bet relentlessly.

If I'm totally card dead and there are TAGs/"observant" players then usually I get up and leave the table. Why play with them?? Go find some donks to play with instead. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I'm probably gonna get shouted down for this but...

IMO playing 14/12 or even 18/16 at 50nl is just leaving money on the table. Whenever I start up a session I look for players this tight and try to sit to their right because I know I'm not going to get any hassle from them.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like nits to my left also but I think its more important to try to sit with a LAG to my right. I choose loose passive (I try to get the highest VPIP and $/hand possible with VPIP taking a bit more importance) tables because I know I am going to be TAG and its best to be playing an opposite style. If we do that and end up card dead at least our nit play will still make money and will we have a decent chance of getting paid on our good hands.

[ama0330]

Some things here.

1. Being card dead for 2k hands is nothing. This is just variance, forget about it. I have run breakeven for almost 30k hands before and played predominantly well through this period.

2. Everyone in this thread is saying like "oh do this and do that and raise your W$DE%FSLK percentage and fine tune your R%$JHKL numbers". BS. BBBSSSS. Just play your game, dont worry about your stats because at uNL people just ARE NOT going to notice ENOUGH for it to make a difference what your 3bet frequency is or if you raise QJs from UTG+1. Stats are HUGELY over-rated on this forum.

3. I play about 20/14, but when I display my stats on my tables, I am often seen running as tight as 6/4. As in six percent, four percent. Does that mean I'm a nit? No, it just means that the game conditions of the session have resulted in tight play. I only say im 20/14 because thats what my average is over about 120,000 hands.

4. The biggest, BIGGEST mistake you can make when you are on a downswing is to overthink it. Dont worry about your stats, worry about how you are getting stacked. Worry about your postflop play and whether or not you are spewing somewhere. You dont need to change what isnt broken.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
Some things here.

1. Being card dead for 2k hands is nothing. This is just variance, forget about it. I have run breakeven for almost 30k hands before and played predominantly well through this period.

2. Everyone in this thread is saying like "oh do this and do that and raise your W$DE%FSLK percentage and fine tune your R%$JHKL numbers". BS. BBBSSSS. Just play your game, dont worry about your stats because at uNL people just ARE NOT going to notice ENOUGH for it to make a difference what your 3bet frequency is or if you raise QJs from UTG+1. Stats are HUGELY over-rated on this forum.

3. I play about 20/14, but when I display my stats on my tables, I am often seen running as tight as 6/4. As in six percent, four percent. Does that mean I'm a nit? No, it just means that the game conditions of the session have resulted in tight play. I only say im 20/14 because thats what my average is over about 120,000 hands.

4. The biggest, BIGGEST mistake you can make when you are on a downswing is to overthink it. Dont worry about your stats, worry about how you are getting stacked. Worry about your postflop play and whether or not you are spewing somewhere. You dont need to change what isnt broken.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is really good advice. Though I think downswings are a good time to reevaluate our games and fix leaks.

I emptied most of my accounts prior to the US law change last fall and was grinding back up at 25NL when I hit a 10K break even stretch. I said to myself I should be able to beat this game despite always losing coinflips and getting bad-beaten to death. I found a lot of leaks (I had gotten lazy) and I think that stretch made me a better player.

[Chomp]

Good post ama.

And I am starting to come to Debaser's conclusion too. I play a nitty 19/13 or something, and am starting to think there is tonnes of value in making that 30+/13 or soemthing like that. IOW, I guess limping a lot more crap in MP/CO/BTN. It is a great way to be deceptive and guys like this take a lot of money off guys with my stats.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
I emptied most of my accounts prior to the US law change last fall and was grinding back up at 25NL when I hit a 10K break even stretch. I said to myself I should be able to beat this game despite always losing coinflips and getting bad-beaten to death. I found a lot of leaks (I had gotten lazy) and I think that stretch made me a better player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you should be contstantly analysing your game and looking for ways which you can improve. After every session I sort every hand by biggest pots lost and see if there's something I could have done better. Usually its pretty standard, but sometimes I pick up on a little error which I can work on. I think this is a million times more beneficial than examining what are usually meaningless statistics.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
Good post ama.

And I am starting to come to Debaser's conclusion too. I play a nitty 19/13 or something, and am starting to think there is tonnes of value in making that 30+/13 or soemthing like that. IOW, I guess limping a lot more crap in MP/CO/BTN. It is a great way to be deceptive and guys like this take a lot of money off guys with my stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be very, very careful. I would encourage you to do this if only to see you learn that it wont make you any more money, but rather you will most likely lose a lot very fast.

"I'll make more money by loosening up" is a total pipedream because preflop is only a tiny tiny part of real LAG play. Proper LAG play is exceptionally, EXCEPTIONALLY difficult, precise, and requires a huge amount of talent and natural card reading ability to pull off well. LAG should not ever be a decision, it should be a progression. You cant ever say "awesome, I'm a LAG now" because chances are you are just raising a bunch more hands preflop and bluffing a lot without knowing what you are doing. Thats not LAG, its stupid.

Saying that playing 19/14 is leaving money on the table is also incorrect if the implication is that playing looser is more profitable. What is more profitable is playing BETTER, and this increase in skill enables you to play more situations profitably, and THEREFORE you play looser.

Loosening up is not the beginning of the process, its the end result. See?

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Everyone in this thread is saying like "oh do this and do that and raise your W$DE%FSLK percentage and fine tune your R%$JHKL numbers". BS. BBBSSSS. Just play your game, dont worry about your stats

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd just like to say that my reply was mainly to do with

[ QUOTE ]
anywhooooo, my purpose here it to get some feed back on what you do when you are running super card dead to stay active

[/ QUOTE ]

and was basically "raise more hands on the CO/Button" & "Don't sit at tables with better opponents"

I just keep my session stats displayed to give me an idea of how I'm running at any given time - I've found that I get given most action for my big hands when I'm running ~20-30 VPIP /10+ PFR - beyond that I don't much care about my stats . If I go card dead and the tables loose I nit it up - screw the stats I'll get called when I raise anyway - even if I'm running at 6/4.

That aside ama pretty much nailed it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Freelancer]

Just open up your game a tiny bit in position and keep playing your regular game.

As long as you recognize that your image has changed and adapt (ie. steal a bit more) you'll be fine and the cold run will even itself out eventually.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]

Saying that playing 19/14 is leaving money on the table is also incorrect if the implication is that playing looser is more profitable. What is more profitable is playing BETTER, and this increase in skill enables you to play more situations profitably, and THEREFORE you play looser.

Loosening up is not the beginning of the process, its the end result. See?

[/ QUOTE ]

gold.

While we are talking about stats the oft quoted 20/15 TAG stats or thereabouts is what your overall numbers ought to look like.

Personally I play about 9/9 UTG and 32/20 OTB with a gradual increase from EP to LP.

this is over a LOT of hands tho - individual sessions can vary a lot - and I switch my play lots as well and go crazy maniacal sometimes when the table situation calls for it.

Whatever you do don't get stuck in the "I must play xxx/yyy stats" mindset - use them as a guide - thats all they really are.

Learn to play better - learn to recognise +EV situations - learn to make good decisions preflop and postflop - and let the stats look after themselves.

You should never sit at a table (unless you are experimenting) and think today I am going to play LAG or today I am going to be TAG - you always want to adapt to the table .

[Michael Fish]

I've just got off the end of a huge card dead stretch, there's really not much you can do about it to be honest. KEW's advice is spot on here. It can be very very frustrating indeed especially when you finaly pick up a TP hand and some ubernit raises it up.

I know exactly where you're comming from on your last post, just try think in terms of your table image and use it at the right time.

[Drainbamaged]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

e) Get the hell out of Full Tilt


[/ QUOTE ]

What's terribly wrong with Full Tilt?

[/ QUOTE ]
riggers /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Please explain. I play some at Full Tilt.

I guess you may be joking.

[Chomp]

[ QUOTE ]
Loosening up is not the beginning of the process, its the end result. See?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yup, thanks to another great post, I think I do see. Cheers.

[munkey]

I recently ran pot cold for last few k hands in the sense of my stats were in the usual area and I was stealing 25%, problem was my draws were missing and when I did flop big I just won the flop pot. Hence wtSD waas down and w$SD 43%.

When your not wining any decent sized pots, it magnifies any small mistakes you make - which made me realise how important avoiding getting reliogusly floated and lsing those small PFR. PFR+cbet pots to xlooseys as Matrix mentioned earlier.

[ QUOTE ]

Seat select better. Sit at tables with tight players in the 2 seats to your left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also about rasing preflop more, I think I need to do this more, I was *cough* playing higher and saw a regular continually PFR and cbetting whenever the pot was limped and often taking it down and slowing growing his stack ~ +30bbs over few hundrudo hands.

Thismade me realise these non-equity (based on our hands/board) plays i.e semi-bluffing are invariant on card-deadness and can smooth out the card deadness.

[Michael Fish]

I came back because i just thought of something that might help

Play one table and use a card blinder exploit reads and position. Hopefully this might help to restore your confidence in loosening up a bit. As an extra added bonus you don't get to see all those junk hands! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2. Everyone in this thread is saying like "oh do this and do that and raise your W$DE%FSLK percentage and fine tune your R%$JHKL numbers". BS. BBBSSSS. Just play your game, dont worry about your stats

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd just like to say that my reply was mainly to do with

[ QUOTE ]
anywhooooo, my purpose here it to get some feed back on what you do when you are running super card dead to stay active

[/ QUOTE ]

and was basically "raise more hands on the CO/Button" & "Don't sit at tables with better opponents"



[/ QUOTE ]

I re-read my post and it does seem like I'm criticising you a little. Of course this is un-intentional and your follow up points are more than valid.

My mention of "W%$$"FDS" and "WD$rekH" basically is my way of saying that people focus far too much on the minute detail of their stats, which I think can be incredibly counter productive.

Anyway, I think we understand each-other. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif