QQ facing all in [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

deleteduser

03-21-2007, 07:04 PM

The first hand I only had one read it was in the first orbit where he bet big on the river only to get caught by a big hand. The second hand I had no read. I was asking myself how often is it correct to call an all in with only an overpair, and did I play these queens correctly, or did i miss some value? Ive started to take my game more seriously so hopefully this hand has some interesting value behind it but if not tell me why.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($24.55)
BB ($10.95)
Hero ($25.15)
MP ($25)
Button ($26.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold.

Flop: ($2.25) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB raises to $6.25, Hero calls $4.25.

Turn: ($14.75) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $17.3 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $32.05

-My thinking: This hand my thought process when like this. Prefolp alright I have queens make the usual raise to a dollar "Im always raising to 1 no matter how strong my hand frist in." Flop comes not a great board flush draw's out there and a seven has me beat. Either way I make the standard continuation bet b/c of my position. After he raises me I usually think that he probally thinks im bluffing at the pot and is trying to catch my bluff as I have been making the continuation bet regularly. I call because i have position hopeing he will check the turn. "Do tou think I am ahead or behind here?" On the turn the flush comes so does a possible straight he pushes I feel as though an over pair will just not win this pot so I fold. If i have a queen of diamonds does this change my decision at all?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($12.50)
Button ($25.30)
SB ($26.95)
BB ($16.90)
Hero ($25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, SB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($6.25) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero raises to $6, SB raises to $23.95, Hero calls $16 (All-In).

Turn: ($52.20) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($52.20) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $52.20

This hand I was thinking that because he has position on the flop and had a giant hand like AA or KK he would not have just put me all in, he would have tryed to milk it and not risk me folding so I put him on AK and called. Is this standard thought? A raise out of position usually makes me think AK because they are looking to take the pot down quick. Thoughts?

PS-spelling/grammar not my thang

Big Poppa Smurf

03-21-2007, 07:15 PM

yeah hand two you almost certainly lost if villain is reasonable at all. And putting him on AK is pretty wishful thinking given all the action so far, unless its AKs which you are behind. Min-raise is ok here if you plan to fold to any more action.

Hand One is so drawy I would just shove the flop

deleteduser

03-21-2007, 07:21 PM

In stead of a C-Bet your saying to push on the flop after he checks. Can you give your reasoning behind this?

vin17

03-21-2007, 07:26 PM

How often can you reasonably expect bluffing at 25NL OP?

deleteduser

03-21-2007, 07:36 PM

For Above ^^

I think that is a problem I have playing at these stakes, I definitely think to much into the hands, I know at these levels i need to be playing solid poker. However seeing all the terrible bets some of these players make I often wonder what my opponent really has. Do you have any other opinions on the hands?

vin17

03-21-2007, 07:42 PM

Sorry, I probably should have specified the question wasn't just for you since I'm playing/learning at these stakes myself.

takingcontrol

03-21-2007, 09:56 PM

First hand, I would have shoved flop because I think we're ahead most of the time.
Second you're about 60-40 against his range if it's AQ+ JJ+. He may have percieved your re-raise as a weak attempt to pick off a cbet and be coming back at you with air on a dry board. Of course he could have a proper hand so whether it's +ev or not depends on your read I suppose.

Xanta

03-21-2007, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In stead of a C-Bet your saying to push on the flop after he checks. Can you give your reasoning behind this?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not saying open shove on the flop, that would be a bit of an overbet /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

He's saying that instead of calling and puking when a diamond, ten, or even an 8 9 or ace hits on the turn, you should 3bet all in on the flop. Villains will call with draws and you protect your hand.

Big Poppa Smurf

03-21-2007, 10:04 PM

gabrie,

in hand 1 i am saying just shove all in after he checkraises, which is basically just a psb at that point. H

breandan

03-22-2007, 12:20 AM

getting all ur chips in at nl 25 in either of these hands is a big mistake imho. i mean mebbe since u have a read in the first hand he bluffs or whatever but honestly at these stakes how often do they bluff/ put all their chips in with smaller over pair? like never? yeah pretty much...in theory i fold these but in practice i call and prey to hit a queen cuz i know it was a terrible call.

deleteduser

03-22-2007, 12:41 AM

Would it be terrible to say that pushing on a drawie flop is usually better than to push on a less drawie flop such as in these hands?

deleteduser

03-22-2007, 12:53 AM

^^
On average...

Big Poppa Smurf

03-22-2007, 01:28 AM

gabrie,

it depends. Drawy flops means villians are more likely to have draws in their range. If someone bet/3bets or checkraises on a 259 rainbow board, that is super scary at these limits since it is usually a set (the only big hand they can have). If they do it on a T77 board with a flush draw they could have Ax with a flush draw, 89, flush draw, oesfd, etc; it means they are bluffing or semibluffing more. You can shove the flop but you can also wait for a safe turn in certain situations to shove, but those are pretty rare at these limits I would say.

So yeah in conclusion I think pushing drawy flops is better since on average, their ranges are wider and we are behind less often.

deleteduser

03-22-2007, 02:40 AM

Thanks for you insight Big Poppa Smurf

deleteduser

03-22-2007, 02:44 AM

PPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($22.75)
Button ($4.75)
SB ($42.75)
Hero ($28.10)
UTG ($34.20)
MP ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($4.10) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets $1.5, Button calls $1.50, Hero raises to $27.1, MP folds, CO calls $20.25 (All-In), Button calls $2.25 (All-In).

Turn: ($56.70) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($56.70) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $56.70

Here is a hand I just got done with and thought again with this situation. Does the fact that their are 2 players behind me effect whether i go all in or not? How is this play compared to the queens?

yeotaJMU

03-22-2007, 05:49 AM

referring to youre first two hands:
the first hand i think a push is a decent play. he could have a monster draw and call you but that happens. he could have a bad draw and call. he could call with a 10 (unlikely). for all intents and purposes i say you have the best hand on the flop, but you are losing on this turn. get it in on the flop.
the second hand why dont you 4 bet your queens? you have position and this way if he comes back over the top you can fold to KK or AA. by just calling preflop his range is larger. as played, i guess i call and hope he has JJ or 10 10.

Big Poppa Smurf

03-22-2007, 04:07 PM

gabrie,

the 87s hand i wouldn't shove the flop because it's a huge overbet. You want to shove if you get in a situation where its like a potsized bet to shove.