Standard or undermilked?

[fees]

Should i bet flop, raise the turn more, shove river?
Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $83.91
HERO: $100.90
Button: $36.10
SB: $38.80
BB: $18

Pre-flop: (5 players) HERO is CO with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $5.5</font>, HERO calls, BB folds.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif ($13.25, 2 players)
UTG checks, HERO checks.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/club.gif ($13.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises to $11</font>, UTG calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/club.gif ($35.25, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">HERO bets $30</font>, UTG calls.

Results:
Final pot: $95.25
<font color="#ffffff">HERO Shows 7c Ac</font>
<font color="#ffffff">UTG mucks Kd Kc</font>

[prodonkey]

Looks pretty good to me.. I may raise a little more on the turn.. like $15.. then when the club hits.. either you're getting paid by a big club.. or you aren't.. i'd bet around pot.. I think most people can fold a K if someone moves all in on the river with 4 to a suit out.

[Waingro]

I think you should fold pf to his limp rr. That is the important part. Raise more on the turn, otherwise I think you played it fine.

[ADK]

fold preflop, im probably betting out flop here, but as played the hand looks fine.. should defo raise more on the turn tho

[fees]

I think we were like 180 BB deep and i had position, no way im folding

[Big Poppa Smurf]

this is well played

[Xanta]

Check flop for sure and then type TY FOR THE FREE CARD in chat (not actually /images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

Turn raise could/should be bigger, he's not folding an overpair here ever and he's not calling a raise with AKo anyways, so just jack it up when he calls.

River bet is nice.

PF I don't like even given the size of his l/rr, flushes and 2 pairs are the only way you're winning decent pots here.
Edit: Didn't see stack sizes, makes it way better but I still probably fold

[fees]

[ QUOTE ]
this is well played

[/ QUOTE ]

actually?

[Chomp]

To me it looks fortunate that you got paid off on the river and I think that's influencing some answers here. If villain folded - as he clearly should have done - we'd be cursing not having got more in before the river.

So I bet this flop most of the time, and decide on turn c/c or even bet depending on how I think I can extract most.

[Phytopath]

Pre-flop is fine, villian didn't raise much and the games are deep so your range can be alot wider.

All streets look good to me. I may actually have bet less on the river trying to get called, no way I call a near potsized bet here even with the Kc unless you are a complete blufftard.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is well played

[/ QUOTE ]

actually?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes this is perfect

edit: i guess you could bet less on the river but usually he's either calling or not, so there is probably more equity in betting a lot

[Xanta]

I was thinking about that regarding betsizing on the river.

If villain holds the K/images/graemlins/club.gif, you could pot it and he won't fold. If he holds an overpair without a club, you have to bet substantially less for him to pay you off given the 4 flush on the river. Basically, bet 30-35 or 10-17 on the river, but don't go in between.

I think that extra number of non high club hands do not make up for the missed value of you making a small bet, so your bet size was good.

[xwillience]

[ QUOTE ]
this is well played

[/ QUOTE ]


agreed. aside from the PF call which is meh, this is well played.

[Khaos4k]

[ QUOTE ]
To me it looks fortunate that you got paid off on the river and I think that's influencing some answers here. If villain folded - as he clearly should have done - we'd be cursing not having got more in before the river.

So I bet this flop most of the time, and decide on turn c/c or even bet depending on how I think I can extract most.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do we possibly get more money in? Taking a free turn is a good idea, we raise decent on our hit, and bet close to pot on the river.

[Michael Fish]

nh

[orange]

raise the turn harder. with these deeper stacks, try to get the money in. river bet is good.

i would also consider betting the flop. you accomplish a few things. either a) he folds very often the better hand or b) he calls and you can build a nicer pot in position with a disguised draw.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

orange,

I think betting flop in position here is just begging to get check-raised. The opponent has a pretty bad case of FPS here so this is one of those spots you can just feel that check-raise coming if you bet.

[fees]

i defintly felt he would checkraise me on the flop, which is why i took the freebie, possibly riase more on the turn, being OOP here actually might have helped b/c i would lead turn and push river

[breandan]

even if he c/r on flop most of the time he doesnt c/r all in so bet like 55% of the pot on he flop, call the c/r and stack him on turn. pokah is ez.

[breandan]

btw most of the replies in this thread make me sick. if ur gonna check flop bomb the turn... do u really think he expects u to check flop with nut flush draw!?!? jesus.....this hand is nauseating.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

[ QUOTE ]
btw most of the replies in this thread make me sick. if ur gonna check flop bomb the turn... do u really think he expects u to check flop with nut flush draw!?!? jesus.....this hand is nauseating.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah dude they are like 2 buy-ins deep, checking a bare nut flush draw here is fine given the action so far.

edit: in fact players who take retarded lines like this with big pairs are just stupid nits who think they are good and get married to big pairs, so take the freebie instead of getting cr'd and then just pot pot is a perfect line

[breandan]

i re-read my post and realized i might've come off as high and mighty but honestly if he's got a big pair here i wanna build the pot on the flop in case i hit...mebbe like 1/3rd psb on flop???i dunno....just feels like stacking a nit in this spot should happen like every time...gotta build the pot on the flop i think...ugh i dunno...i know free cards are sweet in 3 bet pots but to be able to get all this guys chips i think we need some dollars going in on flop...help me please im a semi-retarded noob.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
orange,

I think betting flop in position here is just begging to get check-raised. The opponent has a pretty bad case of FPS here so this is one of those spots you can just feel that check-raise coming if you bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
wasnt listed in the OP that villan is tricky. i also cant remember the last time ive seen someone c/r KK/AA/etc on a board like this given PF action.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

The smallish limp re-raise and then the flop check tells you everything you need to know about how tricky this guy thinks he is. Anyways I would never bet the flop because I would think I was either getting cr'd or he was folding, and I don't think villains ever check/fold here.

[Chomp]

I'm finding some things in this thread pretty confusing, maybe people can help me out:

1. Is fear of a c/r really a legitimate reason not to bet flop here, or in general?
2. Do we not often fold better Aces here with a flop bet?
3. Is there not great deception value in a flop bet v. his obvious good holding higely increasing stacking possibilities?
4. Does hero not get very lucky that he got a totally retarded call on river?
5. Do these stack sizes count as "deep"? I thought "deep" was bigger than this, but maybe I'm wrong.
6. Does anybody think a lot of the analysis in this thread is results orientated because hero won a nice pot in the end?


Thanks.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm finding some things in this thread pretty confusing, maybe people can help me out:

1. Is fear of a c/r really a legitimate reason not to bet flop here, or in general?
2. Do we not often fold better Aces here with a flop bet?
3. Is there not great deception value in a flop bet v. his obvious good holding higely increasing stacking possibilities?
4. Does hero not get very lucky that he got a totally retarded call on river?
5. Do these stack sizes count as "deep"? I thought "deep" was bigger than this, but maybe I'm wrong.
6. Does anybody think a lot of the analysis in this thread is results orientated because hero won a nice pot in the end?


Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. yeah, getting c/r-ed off our hand sucks. but tbh, i still dont know if we get c/r-ed enough to NOT merit a bet. i would bet here 50/50 probably.

2. sure, sometimes we'll fold better hands.

3. yes, there is the deception value in a flop bet. as stated, i'm 50% for a flop bet. but it is a rr-ed pot, and our draw is already disguised.

4. yeah, villan's call was probably pretty bad.

5. meh, these stack sizes are semi deep. iirc, stacks are like 150bbs (correct me if i'm wrong). i officially think of deep as 200bb+ though.

6. maybe, maybe not.

[dd323]

I think this hand is well played, maybe you could bet a little more on the turn, but he didn't help you get the money in.

Oh I just looked at the results, I think with them included people will be saying to bet it harder, ect, but if they weren't there.. blah blah blah..

[Piece of Cake]

Prf: I fold but considering stacks maybe a call isn't out of line in position against what appears to be a a big pp (limp reraise).

Flop: Now he checks. I understand that he's been tricky and fearing a checkraise is legitamate, BUT fps may have him smooth call again or checkminraise (which I completely don't mind in position and as deep as we are)

Turn: As played to this point, I'd pot it - raise to 18.

River: I then push the rest in on the river if we get the pot to 50 with a large turn bet - as played I think the 30 bet is fine - BUT it's possible anyone who calls 30 into 35 would also call the overbet 66. I expect to see folds here most of the time, but the Kc might think he just made good, and that he trapped you.

I sort of wish I didn't know his hand.

[iamVillaiNmo]

The only thing that made me jump about this hand was OP deciding to call after UTG L/R. I really would tend to let A7s go here only because you will get your self in trouble with better aces here.

[allaboutmyfetti]

looks good except i'd raise more on the turn ... raising to 11 is like a &lt; 1/2 PSR.