AKs ... is this a bad felt here

[jordiepop]

villian just sat down. should i be reraising with ak here pre, and how is this flop play

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $23.75
Hero: $63.85
CO: $70.35
Button: $27.50
SB: $14.40
BB: $60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.25</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $5</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif ($20.25, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $10</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $30</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises all-in $55</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG calls all-in $8.75</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($149, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $76.5, Sidepot 1: $72.5)


River: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($149, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $76.5, Sidepot 1: $72.5)


Results:
Final pot: $149

[jordiepop]

.

[TheRenaissance]

I hate these spots.

[jordiepop]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate these spots.


[/ QUOTE ]


Im translating this to, " this is a tough one jordie" Im ok with that.

[antneye]

Im a NL newbie, but I think I can find a fold to this shove. BB 3-bet OOP Pre-flop...to me this is showing great strength.......Big pair to me. King flops and he's not worried. AA? I dont know, but I think I can get away from this.

I am a limit player trying to make the transition and learn the game so take my comments with a grain of salt. I play 2/4 limit and have started donking the NL micros as a precursor to moving from limit to NL.

EDIT: I just did the math and you have no choice but to call after your $30 raise........I think your beat, but you are probably priced into this pot. If my math is right arent u getting 4-1 here?

[LMAO]

I think this is unavoidable without a read... to do anything esle you might as well have folded pf.

[antneye]

Since he leaves himself no choice but to call an all in after his $30 raise.....wouldn't it be better to just shove the flop instead of the $30 raise?

[VPIP100]

Preflop.. meh, I think shoving is not good, 4-betting and fold to a shove neither so I guess this is fine.

You cant fold on the flop, so I think without reads that hes a total nit I play the same.

[creamfillin]

lol@UTG

What do you put villain on that you beat?

[Jouster777]

I probably end up taking OP's line.

However, after looking at it I think a flop check, push turn may be better. UTG is committed and a nonfactor. BTN is yet to act...if he pushes flop I think we can fold and we are better off to have him call flop than to fold it. Flop is dry so this is relatively safe. This line gets another bet out of BB when he would fold to our flop RR and makes BTN call more often on the flop. OTOH, I don't see BB betting the turn much with hands we beat...but still probably adds to EV.

[poon]

Tough spot. After utg limped, and cold called then called bb's bet i would probly but him on a set and fold but hate it. If i was tilting i would shove flop.

[EMc]

Perhaps call the flop bets and see a turn. Use your positional advantage.

[LMAO]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably end up taking OP's line.

However, after looking at it I think a flop check, push turn may be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont' think he can chk the flop since BB leads into him... but call and push turn is good also.


[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps call the flop bets and see a turn. Use your positional advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is tempting but a waste really (unless you plan on pushing turn)... given action there's a 99% chance that villian is going to bet turn... then what? fold? If you're going to see turn and fold to a bet, than you might as well fold the flop and if you fold this flop then you should've just folded PF.

I think this is a WA/WB situation...

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont' think he can chk the flop since BB leads into him... but call and push turn is good also.

[/ QUOTE ]That's what I meant

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably end up taking OP's line.

However, after looking at it I think a flop check, push turn may be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont' think he can chk the flop since BB leads into him... but call and push turn is good also.


[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps call the flop bets and see a turn. Use your positional advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is tempting but a waste really (unless you plan on pushing turn)... given action there's a 99% chance that villian is going to bet turn... then what? fold? If you're going to see turn and fold to a bet, than you might as well fold the flop and if you fold this flop then you should've just folded PF.

I think this is a WA/WB situation...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty wrong advice here.

Calling hte flop is keeping hte pot manageable. Its a pretty dry flop, and your villains will tip you off to as whether your hand is good or not on the turn. The reason position is the shizzle is the increased information you get from your opponents.

How do you figure its a waste. I love TPTK more than anyone, but here we arent really sure if its good and we get more information that we can use by calling than raising. If the PFR leads again, muck it. If the PFR checks and shortie pushes, then I probably overpush.

Its ok to call a bet in position to see a turn then fold.

[thefisherman]

Small comment. I think you raised a bit too much preflop. I'd got with just 3xBB. Really nitty, but maybe that keeps the pot a little smaller and your $30 raise is onyl $20 and you can escape. Just seems like all the money got in pretty fast here and you're pretty much forced to call.

[DrewTheHead]

I call BB flop bet, and see where this takes you with 1 more to act behind. Although this is discretionary I believe on this dry board that the button is folding most of the time here unless he has the nuts. Turn is where you have to reavaluate the BB push. Tough spot, but it is very possible to not shove all your chips here.

[SurferEd]

At what point can we see the results?

[jordiepop]

there is no need for results

edited out by EMc for now, this is a good thread. Still has life.

[kitchma]

I think what makes this hand most difficult is villain's weak looking PFR and flop raise; hard not raise that up. I think EMC is right though. The board is drawless and 3bets are typically a pretty narrow range, so we can afford to call the flop raise and see what villain does on the turn.

One question though: since he made a near min raise PF, should we have 4-bet him? Hopefully it would drive out the button, we would have position on BB, and could safely fold to an AI.

[allaboutmyfetti]

Eh this sucks, but in a multi-way huge pot I get all my money in.

A PSR on the flop is a push, so just get your money in then.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

I would probably 4bet this pre with all the dead money in there, plus UTG is short and doesn't seem good. Given the preflop action flop and the relatively dry board you should really not be raising this flop ever, for many reasons. You don't really need to protect your hand here; it let's villain play perfectly and thus wins the least and loses the most when we're behind.

[Phytopath]

This is a tough spot, but hands like this come up all the time. Obviously with reads this becomes alot easier, the fact that you are in position also makes the hand alot easier to play.

This is a pretty easy flop call, you are against 2 players while you have a good hand TPTK. I would much rather see what develops on the turn, if the PFR puts in another good sized bet you can easily muck it. The mini 3 bet pre-flop is generally a monster, readless.

[boycalledroy]

My personal play on this hand would be to reraise preflop. There are 5ish hands you can put him on here. AA/KK/QQ/AK/AQ.

AQ is unlikely because it would probably not reraise preflop. The 4th bet means that if he has AA he will _probably_ push because why let KK have a chacne to catch a K and stack him. KK should push here.

If he pushes with QQ, more power him, stupid though because at best he is in a race, at worst dominated.

AQ would fold to the 4th bet.

I can fold AK preflop to extreme pressure. I would of re-raised to 10 here pf and if I got pushed on I'd have folded. As played you have no idea if you have a dominated hand or not. You have no idea if you are splitting or winning. You have massive RIO. No matter what happens in this hand you WILL learn a lot about the villain tho!