getting raised light

[allaboutmyfetti]

villian is a tag, methinks he is raisng my flop c-bets light esp in steal-situations. What is the best way to handle this when I actually make a hand:

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
MP: $273.30
CO: $51.05
BTN: $50
Hero (SB): $50
BB: $70
UTG: $21.55

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($0.75, 6 players)
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, BB calls $1.25

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif ($3.5, 2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $2.50</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $8</font>, Hero ??

Is 3bai suicide? Calling seems to suck since there a million turn cards I dont wana see ... folding is usually my standard here but feels pretty w/t esp. given my read.

[Leviathan101]

if you have a strong reason to believe he's playing back at you its not that bad. otherwise it seems like spew to me.

[and12006]

Has he done this before? If you have a good feeling for the villian or a good read I usually re-raise in these spots, and see what happens from then on. Always a hard situation to be in but vs. certain villians 3betting isn't bad here.

[0evg0]

check flop

[allaboutmyfetti]

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check flop

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with the intention of .... ?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

i would just 3bet ai here and he will fold, and if he doesn't well you have outs and it will probably make him stop playing back at you

[Thremp]

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check flop

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this is awful if you cbet with freq

[Genz]

When villain is a TAG, shoving probably puts more money on the line than is necessary to get the job done. I raise to 25-30. That should show enough strength to a TAG to convince him that I am serious about this hand. If I'm called, I'm done with the hand, though, even when a non-club turn card comes.

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
When villain is a TAG, shoving probably puts more money on the line than is necessary to get the job done. I raise to 25-30. That should show enough strength to a TAG to convince him that I am serious about this hand. If I'm called, I'm done with the hand, though, even when a non-club turn card comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I have it in me to c/f a non-club, non-broadway turn. 3-betting / folding to a 4-bet seems kinda overtly weak ... iono.

[Genz]

If I am called here by a TAG, I have to assume some serious strength on his side and I won't put all my money in just because I don't want to look weak against his big pair or something. So I tend to realize that I picked the wrong spot to pull this stunt and back off. There aren't many beautiful cards for the turn. If you are called here, I think you are basically hoping for a non-club 6.

[Freelancer]

If I am in position I often check behind the flop in this spot, OOP I'm betting most of the time.

With a read that villain is enjoying stealing I usually call the flop and see whats going to happen on the turn. Usually they will give up if they where bluffing so you can savely check it down, if he bets its decision time depending on bet size/speed/turn card/gut feeling.

I don't particularily like 3 balling the flop because your turning your hand into a bluff at that point.

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
If I am in position I often check behind the flop in this spot, OOP I'm betting most of the time.

With a read that villain is enjoying stealing I usually call the flop and see whats going to happen on the turn. Usually they will give up if they where bluffing so you can savely check it down, if he bets its decision time depending on bet size/speed/turn card/gut feeling.

I don't particularily like 3 balling the flop because your turning your hand into a bluff at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand checking behind the flop when there are a million scare cards that could fall on the turn.

I didn' think 3-ballin is a complete bluff since hands like, overs + fds &amp; other such combo draws are still callin (although I'm like, at best even equity with almost all of these hands).

The call raise, c/f turn line is good i guess.

[Machavelli]

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check flop

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This is a really bad idea. You bet with 78s (a move I like) and hit one of your better flops. You should be trying to take it down. If we check and the turn comes Q, now what?

At minimum we should figure out where we stand. If you think he's making a play this a pretty decent spot to play back as you have outs.

[schaef]

[ QUOTE ]
When villain is a TAG, shoving probably puts more money on the line than is necessary to get the job done. I raise to 25-30. That should show enough strength to a TAG to convince him that I am serious about this hand. If I'm called, I'm done with the hand, though, even when a non-club turn card comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting commits you though, right? I guess as long as you're comfortable standing up for yourself with this hand...

[schaef]

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[ QUOTE ]
check flop

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This is a really bad idea. You bet with 78s (a move I like) and hit one of your better flops. You should be trying to take it down. If we check and the turn comes Q, now what?

At minimum we should figure out where we stand. If you think he's making a play this a pretty decent spot to play back as you have outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is a queen bad?

[schaef]

[ QUOTE ]
villian is a tag, methinks he is raisng my flop c-bets light esp in steal-situations. What is the best way to handle this when I actually make a hand:

Is 3bai suicide? Calling seems to suck since there a million turn cards I dont wana see ... folding is usually my standard here but feels pretty w/t esp. given my read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know enough about this guy to put him on a range? What would he do with small PP to a button steal? What about mid-PP that are overs to this board? Etc...

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
villian is a tag, methinks he is raisng my flop c-bets light esp in steal-situations. What is the best way to handle this when I actually make a hand:

Is 3bai suicide? Calling seems to suck since there a million turn cards I dont wana see ... folding is usually my standard here but feels pretty w/t esp. given my read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know enough about this guy to put him on a range? What would he do with small PP to a button steal? What about mid-PP that are overs to this board? Etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno .. he's a tag. I assume his range includes PP, maybe big broadway cards, possibly some suited connectors. I hadn't really seen him 3-bet me ever, so it's hard to narrow his range based on PF alone.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

Fetti,

here is what you should do, and why. If you think he's been playing back light, just 3bet AI and don't even worry about winning or not, for the following reasons.

#1) He will think for a long time, type in something like "45" or "A8" or maybe even "TT" and then fold.
#2) Regardless of results, he will stop playing back at you for a while; and then you can play sets and huge hands like this and he will look you up light.

Calling and c/folding the turn is really bad here OOP because he can just abuse you on the turn and river if he feels like it.

[schaef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
villian is a tag, methinks he is raisng my flop c-bets light esp in steal-situations. What is the best way to handle this when I actually make a hand:

Is 3bai suicide? Calling seems to suck since there a million turn cards I dont wana see ... folding is usually my standard here but feels pretty w/t esp. given my read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know enough about this guy to put him on a range? What would he do with small PP to a button steal? What about mid-PP that are overs to this board? Etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno .. he's a tag. I assume his range includes PP, maybe big broadway cards, possibly some suited connectors. I hadn't really seen him 3-bet me ever, so it's hard to narrow his range based on PF alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha... it'd probably be worth the time to play with ranges and betting options in pokerstove. I think I might. With just a basic read like we usually have I don't know that there's a right or wrong answer here. How much do you love variance?

[Kimo White Devil]

[ QUOTE ]
Fetti,

here is what you should do, and why. If you think he's been playing back light, just 3bet AI and don't even worry about winning or not, for the following reasons.

#1) He will think for a long time, type in something like "45" or "A8" or maybe even "TT" and then fold.
#2) Regardless of results, he will stop playing back at you for a while; and then you can play sets and huge hands like this and he will look you up light.

Calling and c/folding the turn is really bad here OOP because he can just abuse you on the turn and river if he feels like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had problems wth hands like these and wha I missed from these hands is the 2nd part. Thank you for this thoughtful response.

[Daniel LeClaire]

In situations like this I like calling and then checking the turn. If he's TAG he will probably shut down if he doesn't have it. If he bets the turn I'd let it go. If he bluffs me out, than nice bluff.

If you 3 bet you have to call a push IMO. Do you want to felt a pair of 8s? Do you want to put $50 in after investing $4? Personally, I don't like 3 betting here because you only fold out air and the rest of the time your are behind. Sometimes it's good to fold out air, but with the pot this small I prefer calling.