QQ -- is folding this flop correct?

[d0ugla5]

Villain was 45/9/3.67 but only over 31 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($9.90)
BB ($6.15)
UTG ($8.30)
Hero ($10.05)
Button ($11.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $0.4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.4</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2.4</font>, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($4.95) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $3.6</font>, Hero???

[ADK]

looks like an overpair with a club, on NL10 i'd just push here.. but im sure others will disagree.

[corndog]

NL10 I'm probably getting it in preflop.

Flop makes me cry. I honestly don't know what I would do. I think best case you are up against JJ. AK with a club is an extremely powerful combo draw hand if he has it and is near 50/50 versus you. My brain tells me you can't win here, but my heart says to push.

[STALLOWN3D]

I'd fold, the pf action looks like QQ+, maybe AK. I know he's loose so he could be reraising wide but the minreraise makes me think he's not doing this with something like TT.

If you had the Qc I'd probably push the flop at 10NL.

[juanepr]

This looks like QQ+, AK with one or more /images/graemlins/club.gifs I fold here, even with the Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

[STALLOWN3D]

[ QUOTE ]
NL10 I'm probably getting it in preflop.

Flop makes me cry. I honestly don't know what I would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think we're far enough ahead pf most of the time to push this? I can't imagine that this is a good play in this spot, but I also just started playing so I could be very wrong.

[juanepr]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold, the pf action looks like QQ+, maybe AK. I know he's loose so he could be reraising wide but the minreraise makes me think he's not doing this with something like TT.

If you had the Qc I'd probably push the flop at 10NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

his pfr is 9%, his re-rasing range is not that wide.

[STALLOWN3D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold, the pf action looks like QQ+, maybe AK. I know he's loose so he could be reraising wide but the minreraise makes me think he's not doing this with something like TT.

If you had the Qc I'd probably push the flop at 10NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

his pfr is 9%, his re-rasing range is not that wide.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooops, I misread that as 19.

Definitely fold flop here

[corndog]

[ QUOTE ]
You really think we're far enough ahead pf most of the time to push this? I can't imagine that this is a good play in this spot, but I also just started playing so I could be very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is the rational move (edited my original post before I saw this one). I don't think you can win, but I sure hate folding it. If I'm in a disciplined mood i fold no problem. If I'm tilting and not using my brain I push (and get stacked).

[RollTide77]

Yeah, you've only got 36 hands on him so I'd imagine with a PFR of 9 his actual VPIP is much lower. He's probably just running hot. He doesn't have a flush. Most likely KK or AA with a club so I'm folding.

On a side note, this hand would also be easier to get away from if you hadn't RR so much PF. The pot was $0.55 and you RR to 3 times that. Its not necessarily bad but it makes it so hard to get away from. What if the flop came Axx or Kxx or even AQx or KQx. Now what? You'd have to dump in alot of money to call it down and you certainly don't want to shove.

[corndog]

[ QUOTE ]
On a side note, this hand would also be easier to get away from if you hadn't RR so much PF. The pot was $0.55 and you RR to 3 times that. Its not necessarily bad but it makes it so hard to get away from. What if the flop came Axx or Kxx or even AQx or KQx. Now what? You'd have to dump in alot of money to call it down and you certainly don't want to shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm okay with his 3-bet size. Normally we don't expect to get 4-bet so the pot is still usually manageable at the flop. When we do get 4-bet the alarms should already be going off in our head.

We want a decent pot when we 3-bet with QQ so we can get more value down the line out of the TT's, JJ's, and unaided Ax's of the world.

If we had 500+ hands on villain and he was still 9% PFR I might be a little more cautious, but even then I'm assuming QQ is a powerful hand preflop and I'm going to make him pay for a flop.

[juanepr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On a side note, this hand would also be easier to get away from if you hadn't RR so much PF. The pot was $0.55 and you RR to 3 times that. Its not necessarily bad but it makes it so hard to get away from. What if the flop came Axx or Kxx or even AQx or KQx. Now what? You'd have to dump in alot of money to call it down and you certainly don't want to shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm okay with his 3-bet size. Normally we don't expect to get 4-bet so the pot is still usually manageable at the flop. When we do get 4-bet the alarms should already be going off in our head.

We want a decent pot when we 3-bet with QQ so we can get more value down the line out of the TT's, JJ's, and unaided Ax's of the world.

If we had 500+ hands on villain and he was still 9% PFR I might be a little more cautious, but even then I'm assuming QQ is a powerful hand preflop and I'm going to make him pay for a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, we don't want to give lower PPs good odds to call for set value. Obviously he does not have a lower PP once we get 4 bet.