NL10 - Bottom Two and Villian Leads the Turn [Archive]

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Mal_Pais

03-19-2007, 11:38 PM

Villian is sorta TAG-ish for this level, 29/11/2.2 over 111 hands, although he's been making loose calls preflop OOP, and he's reraised me preflop several times when he had position. I think he's paying attention, and my table image is meh, my cbets have been getting picked off right and left and I've probably reloaded half a stack over the course of 100 hands since I sat down.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($14.10)
UTG ($0.40)
Hero ($13.15)
SB ($9.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, SB calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.20) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1, SB folds, BB raises to $2.5, Hero calls $1.50.

Bottom two pair, but this board is draw-heavy. Two checks in front of me, I need to play this fast because one of these guys could have a piece of this draw. Villian checkraises! QJ, KT, K9, or a set have me crushed, but KQ, KJ, AQ, QT, JT, maybe AK are within his range and he could be trying to push me off this hand and pick off my c-bet, since I've done a fair amount of folding to pressure this session. I don't think he has a set, given my cards. I want to push, but the pot's not that big and I would be folding a draw. But calling can't be good, either, because there's lot of cards that could scare me on the turn.

Turn: ($6.20) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets $2.7, Hero raises to $10.25, BB calls $7.55.

His turn bet is suspicious. Its not quite half the pot. I'd like to take it down here, but a push is only getting called by better hands. But nothing's changed in the hand. If I think my hand is best, I can't let him price himself in. 

River: ($26.70) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $26.70

Thoughts on this line? Stack off or slow down? Thanks.

lacrymosa

03-20-2007, 01:42 AM

ahh I probably just call a bet on the river, or check behind.

CanYouCallThis

03-20-2007, 02:22 AM

Call a bet on the river? Have you even looked at the river lacrymosa?

Bottom 2 plays like crap, I think due to the heavy draws out there I'dd play it the same up to the calling of the raise on the turn. I think he's already made his hand on the flop, and he sure as **** beats yours. So fold it. Raising the flop and raising the turn again is a very strong but frightened hand. Could be like a 99/TT.

And with the calling on the turn and this river, you know you gotta C/F right?

lacrymosa

03-20-2007, 06:27 AM

ahh I didn't see hero was counterfeited. yeah give up on the river. Leave me alone I'm under a lot of stress /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Loc0Loc0

03-20-2007, 06:52 AM

Check / Fold....

It should be your only line.

bozzer

03-20-2007, 07:45 AM

The turn raise is by hero, Can you call this. Everyone else, could we focus on the flop and turn play, not the relatively unimportant river?

This is a difficult hand. In theory I don't like the idea of a turn raise after getting c-r on the flop w bottom two, cos that's a big pot with bottom two. You might actually maximise your ev here by accepting you can't really charge TP to draw because you'll be putting money in behind too often. I don't really have much constructive to say, but I'll be interested if this post gets some more helpful comments.

nukewell

03-20-2007, 10:51 AM

is a terrible board for bottom 2

i dont think QJ raise on the flop only cold colds, so it leaves a set, KT, K9 or the lone K

i dont think the turn push achieves anything as nothing u beat wil call it, and imo it seems like a small bet that wants u to push

i would look for a cheap showdonw or otherwise giv it up

as it turned out the river killed u anyway and u would have saved money

NoahSD

03-20-2007, 11:10 AM

All,
Hero is all in on the turn... so check/folding the river is kinda silly.

OP,
Flop's actually a pretty interesting spot. My first thought was to shove because his range is like exactly 9T/TJ/TQ/9J/KQ/KJ in no particular order, and you wreck all those hands and lots of them will make bad calls (I assume).

However, a Q/J/K on the turn is such an awful card for you against his range, that you might consider peeling the flop planning to get it in on a safe turn. Since he's rarely checking the turn because nobody checks ever after they take the lead, and the pot:stack ratio has him totally committed with all those hands once he bets anything even remotely decent, this is the correct play.

Edit: As it happens he actually bet small enough to get away on the turn sometimes, but it's not like he will very often anyway.

Mal_Pais

03-20-2007, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
as it turned out the river killed u anyway and u would have saved money

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the insight. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I need to upgrade my PatternMapper.