QQ vs fishies

[winky51]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em
Converted w/ PonksSaver: http://www.pokermentor.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=510
- - - HAND 2903581596 - - -
PreFlop: <font color="blue">HERO</font> is Button with <font color="black">Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif</font> <font color="red">Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif</font> (10 Players)
1 <font color="darkred">fold</font>, UTG+2 <font color="darkgreen">raises</font>, 4 <font color="darkred">folds</font>, <font color="blue">HERO</font> <font color="darkgreen">raises</font>, 1 <font color="darkred">fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls,

Flop: (9.50 SB) <font color="red">A/images/graemlins/heart.gif</font> <font color="blue">6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif</font> <font color="green">5/images/graemlins/club.gif</font> (3 Players)
BB <font color="green">bets</font>, UTG+2 <font color="darkred">folds</font>, <font color="blue">HERO</font> <font color="darkgreen">raises</font>, BB calls,

Turn: (6.75 BB) <font color="black">2/images/graemlins/spade.gif</font> (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="blue">HERO</font> <font color="green">bets</font>, BB calls,

River: (8.75 BB) <font color="green">8/images/graemlins/club.gif</font> (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="blue">HERO</font> checks,

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

BB was fish. But it struck me strange that a fish would bet into a PF raiser and reraiser?! If he had a set wouldnt he check raise? But then again he is a fish and capable of doing stupid plays like betting an Ace crap here. He bet into both of us. I have seen other fish bet strange hands in this same situation. Figure this was the easiest way for a cheap showdown.

[M0n3y0nf1r3]

Well played. I play same way when given each of those situations.
-$

[mack848]

I go for a WA/WB line here, as I think he has an Ace over half the time. I don't think a fish bets into a raiser and 3-better with a 5 or 6. Once UTG+2 folds, I call down getting 5:1 odds to do so.

If you think he doesn't have an ace half the time, then your line is good so long as he will always go to showdown with 77-JJ.

[Skittles]

im thinking he has an ace when he bets into you. i check turn .

[SoCalPat]

[ QUOTE ]
BB was fish. But it struck me strange that a fish would bet into a PF raiser and reraiser?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Fish play any ace for any amount. Fish are also entitled to catch AK or AQ, and some are smart enough to know that they can't afford to let this be checked around.

Fish wouldn't get into a raising war with top pair/marginal kicker. The flop raise is good, but with position, you should check the turn and call down the river if you're heads-up.

[Gravy]

Against the BB you describe you can probably check the turn through and fold a non-Q river.

[revlwb]

I'm fine with your play here. I think you have to bet the turn, and I might consider betting the river if your opponent is really crazy.

[jbeckern6]

i think this type of decision on the turn is one of the hardest to make. I think the times you want to bet the turn is if the board is draw heavy to charge villain to draw (it is not in this case) or if you think a bet has a reasonable chance of causing villain to fold (given his bet on the flop, I think there is almost no chance he folds). Therefore, I think the best line is to check behind on the turn. Most likely a check on the turn will induce a bet from villain on the river, so you will have to call down a bet there, so the cost is still 1 BB but it saves you getting check raised when you don't have much benefit from a turn bet.

[winky51]

not crazy fishy, but that flop bet seemed a little strange

[winky51]

But isnt that the same thing as betting the turn and check check the river? That small chance he might fold? Also you have a small chance to outdraw. Make the small pair pay. He isnt betting the river. Thats my thought.

So if you're right when is it correct to bet the turn?

From what I learn bet hands with no outs and check hands with outs. But 2 outs is a hand with no outs basically.

[hero]

I feel this is a wa/wb example and I'd bet out with an oesd from the BB like 78 or 34 if i was the villian.
He could be a donk with a weak ace but I agree with the check behind on the turn and calldown a riv bet. I feel you can safely fold to a c/r on the turn, but besides the low straight it's not a very draw heavy board. Pot's big and its HU so you're not folding for a bb getting 8-1 on the riv. check behind with outs and see a cheap sd.

[jbeckern6]

[ QUOTE ]


From what I learn bet hands with no outs and check hands with outs. But 2 outs is a hand with no outs basically.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this most applies when you are first to act. If you are acting last, I would rather just check behind with few outs (and not many draws on board) and then call a river bet