is this leading a girl on or not?

[nation]

in the past few months, i've been obsessed with becoming a better person. i've quit smoking, started becoming healthy, and started to really think before i act. i have really high ethical standards and i feel as though i wasn't being the person i think i should be, so i'm reevaluating stuff that i would normally do with no problems.

ok, say i meet up with a girl. i'm not interested in ever dating her. she's just a booty call. she asks me if i am interested in eventually dating exclusively.

i tell her that i am just looking for fun and that i just want to "hook up." she says she is fine with that.

however, i hear from her friend that she really does like me and wants to date me and the only reason she is still hooking up with me is because she has feelings for me and hopes that someday i will "fall for her."

is it unethical to continue hooking up with her? like, i did tell her that i only wanted to hook up and wasnt interested in ever being exclusive...but at the same time i know that she has feelings for me. my gut feeling is that this is unethical and i should stop seeing her because i am making her feel like there is a chance even though there isn't.

but on the other hand, i enjoy having sex with her and i was very upfront with her. i feel as if even though having sex with her is good and even though i've covered my ass in any future discussions, the fact that i know how she feels precludes any chance of there being any honor in the way i've treated her.

so, thoughts?

-nation

[TheGrifter]

Keep on keeping on....hit that hoochie...

[Bad Beat Maker]

I think since you KNOW her intentions and that she is a friend with benefits, she is not looking at it the same way that you are. She is looking at it hoping that you will one day soon catch the sort of feelings for her that she has for you. It sucks for her and the longer you let her keep clinging like that the more it will hurt her once you tell her whats up.

Cut her off.

[centaurmyth]

if you see yourself as out of honor from continuing to have fun with her sexually, than break it off. if not, and you continue on, and down the road she will return to the "why don't you want to be with me long term?" then that would be the time to break it off.

in my experience, the only reason women get with another guy is that they are seeking long term (eventually). so it's no surprise that she seeks that anyhow. what's important is what's good for you.

either way, good for you. you've no delusions about your intentions, have declared them, and will involve yourself honorably. in any instance, leave her better than you found her.

[nation]

centaurmyth,

"what's important is what's good for you."

is that really true? i'm not so sure anymore. i know that all this might make me feel better, but truly thats not why i want to make sure what is ethical and what is not. i just don't want to be that guy who is an [censored] and womanizes women.

[guids]

yes, it is. you know what she is trying to do, and since women tend to be less logical, and more emmotional in relationships, the sex, and hooking up part is leading her on, because it is making a much greater impression on her. It actually benefits you both by dumping her though, in a more selfish vain, becuase eventually she is going to get TOO clingy and that usually leads to a bad situation.

a jaded view from my younger days:

the trick is to know when to totally break off contact right before they get TOO clingy to maximize the amount of sex before anyone gets hurt.

[SlowHabit]

It's obviously flattering when someone digs you but stop trying to be all nice and stuff; that shiet pisses me off.

If you want to hit it without any responsibilities, then you be upfront with her on what you want and what will happen once you hit it. Don't try to act like you're a nice guy who can't go to sleep at night if you bang a girl and end up not dating her. Also, don't try to do nice stuff for her so that she likes you more since people who like other people always have that drawing dead *hope* for a relationship. And seriously, who would want to have a long-term relationship with a girl who easily let you hit it?

FWIW, banging a girl whom you're not currently dating her is like a subset of a womanizer; at least it makes a good trip report trip for BBV. And I would have more respect for you as a man if you come out and say, "there's this girl who likes me. I want to hit it. She wants to date but that's not what I'm not looking for right now. I am going to be upfront with her and let her know that I just want to hit it."

[B00T]

What makes this acceptable for the Diablo forum and not posted in OOT?

[Dids]

Nation,

I think situations like this are really easy.

Ask yourself "are you being honest with her".

If the answer is yes, and she knows what time it is and she's the one making bad decisions, fire away.

[nation]

slowhabit,

that's the problem. i always tell the girl exactly what's going on. however, the last girl who i had sex with (the threesome girl) apparently had more feelings than i initially thought. she does want to have a threesome again, but i'm pretty sure she wants to do it because she wants to make me feel good, and in turn want to date her. so i've been holding off, and i'm pretty sure now that i would be a pretty crappy dude if i had the threesome anyways.

[Emperor]

If you are worried about the ethical issue... Then you know what you need to do

If you are worried about her coming at you with a set of Ginsu when you start dating someone you are actually interested in, and you should be, then you know what you need to do.

Most girls are slots, and just tell their friends they have feelings so that they don't feel like slots, and so their friends don't think they are slots, when actually 99.9735242534% of the time they are just slots and so are their friends.

[DeezNuts]

I have this problem pretty frequently. Sometimes I get sucked into leading the girl on via continuing to hook up with her and hang out with her. I know it's not gonna go anywhere if I do "date" her, so what is the point of trying to(I reason to myself)? I'm always very honest with the girl, so that makes me feel like less of a douche, but girls will believe and hope for something different.

If you break it off and come home alone after a night of drinking, you will be sorely tempted to call her for the occassional booty call, for which she will be willing. Do not give into this temptation or the cycle will start again.

DN

[darkcore]

If you really have that high ethical standards and want to become a better person it is not only about you being honest, but also about trying to save others you care of when you see they go wrong on something. And in this case it is clearly up to you, since she seems to feel different about your relationship then you do and you know it.

That said: If you have been honest to her and made your intentions perfectly clear, you are easily better than 85% of the guys out there.

[centaurmyth]

If you were using women as human condoms, then I wouldn't have bothered posting at all. But, as you have made known, your intentions are to have fun, and, with my respect, to be honorable. And, if she's down with that, enjoy: she's lucky to have you. The fact that she even has long-term on her mind only serves to reinforce that: You are the catch, not vice versa. Not condescendingly, but as a good man.

Since your intentions are both honorable and known, then what is really important after that is: does that work for you (aka "what's important is what's good for you.")? I don't say this to make you feel better, I say this because it is how I live my life. I know I am not ready for a long term relationship, so I'm not going to change that for ANYONE.

In the long run, I've learned for myself that "works for me" is what's going to make the difference because her emotions will change like the wind. As a result of those fluctuating emotions, it is essential that I stick to my guns and know what's right for me in the future of any relationship as I will be the emotional stronghold (and, likely, financial as well). She may not "like" it, but she definitely respects me, and even "loves" me, for it. I do not disrespect her because of this, nor am I unethical for it. On the contrary, I seek to set the bar for all women I am with so high that the man she eventually is with "exclusively" is going to be great for her. Win-win.

Lastly, I respect that you have matured to the point where you have realized that your honor is not negotiable. So, again, what's right for you, will ultimately be right for the two of you... whoever that 2nd might be, when you are READY to have that.

If/When she finally reaches the point where it's marry me or go, does that really change the fact that you have been honorable with her all along? No. It is not dishonorable to end it there either. Because, again, all along, you have honored both her as a woman and, to yourself, your deepest truth (that you do not yet seek a woman with whom to have a family).

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. - Thomas Jefferson

[lapoker17]

lbs?

[Isura]

nation,

Just keep hitting it. Some girls are just clueless and she sounds like it. Let her think what she wants about you "coming around", but just be honest if she asks about your future.

la,

hahaha

[LyinKing]

"Since your intentions are both honorable and known"

hmm. honor doesn't carry much weight these days, it seems.

[centaurmyth]

[ QUOTE ]
"Since your intentions are both honorable and known"

hmm. honor doesn't carry much weight these days, it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

only to those who don't carry it...

[LyinKing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Since your intentions are both honorable and known"

hmm. honor doesn't carry much weight these days, it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

only to those who don't carry it...

[/ QUOTE ]

spoken like a man who knows how it feels.

[El Diablo]

nation,

Yeah, it's leading the girl on even if you've stated your intentions clearly. Sucks. The fact of the matter is, the girl is probably going to get hurt here because she has an emotional attachment to you far greater than you do for her. The best thing you can do for her is to break it off before she gets any closer. Like I said, it sucks.

[southerndog]

[ QUOTE ]
Nation,

I think situations like this are really easy.

Ask yourself "are you being honest with her".

If the answer is yes, and she knows what time it is and she's the one making bad decisions, fire away.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

[SNOWBALL]

I was in a similar situation with a couple girls who I was having threesomes with. We broke up briefly, but then got back together once I was pretty sure that they accepted and understood I wasn't in love with them. It's going ok so far.

I'm nice to them. The poster who said "don't be too nice or you'll lead them on" is presuming that A. Your communication with the girl is poor or B. she's not capable of dealing with her own feelings and thinking reasonably.

Just make sure she knows that you don't want to hurt her feelings, and that you aren't ever going to be interested in being exclusive. Treating her with minimal consideration won't get her expectations up, but it is a good way to make her feel like a cheap whore.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]

If you were using women as human condoms, then I wouldn't have bothered posting at all. But, as you have made known, your intentions are to have fun, and, with my respect, to be honorable. And, if she's down with that, enjoy: she's lucky to have you. The fact that she even has long-term on her mind only serves to reinforce that: You are the catch, not vice versa. Not condescendingly, but as a good man.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ewwww. Do you work in H.R. or something? This is a terrible way to think. If a relationship works well, then both people are lucky to have eachother.

[Go_Blue88]

uhh this situation happens often and in my opinion, you should end things and find someone new. the fact that you know she has feelings for you and the fact that you never will have feelings for her means that you're not really being that honest; maybe in the past you were honest with her but for all you know she thinks things have changed as of now.

i'd talk to her about everything again.

also, i'd end things with her in your situation; there's tons of girls out there--no need to really hurt this girl in the future.

[Reef]

nation,
how difficult/inconvenient would finding a new booty call be?

[nation]

reef,

wouldn't be that difficult, but would be inconvenient, although i don't think that whether or not it's inconvenient should have any bearing on this situation.

[JaBlue]

Why do you keep using the word unethical and why are you so worried about ethics?

If you feel bad(guilty) doing this, and it sounds like you do, you should probably stop.

[five4suited]

The fact that you're giving this as much thought as you seem to be means that you will have acted honorably in the end, regardless. As for what you should do, not to be offensive, but how old is she/are you? To me, that would greatly influence your level of responsibility, but since we're assuming that she's not an adult who is responsible for herself and her actions despite your honest full disclosure, I ask.

Also, what's up with the friend, exactly? She was either dispatched by the girl you're banging to let you know that she's into you, or she wants to bang you too, and is trying to steal you from her friend. Or you've already slept with her, and she's jealous. Or both. If it's the first, then you can't honorably pretend that you have no idea, can you?

Or... forget all that. The determining factor always is and always will be, how hot is she, and how good is the sex. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fish2plus2]

Reading between the lines, I would guess that she is pretty average looks wise and has low confidence. If this is the case, then yes, hitting it is unethical imho.

[fish2plus2]

[ QUOTE ]
lbs?

[/ QUOTE ]

perfecto.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
"i have really high ethical standards"
...
"i've covered my ass in any future discussions"

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be able to answer this yourself. I will just say that for most people, having "high ethical standards" and talking about "covering your ass" do not go together well. Decide how they go together for you.

[ahnuld]

keep hitting it. not her fault shes not getting the message when you made it clear.

[shemp]

My experience is that it is best to cut out early when expectations and hopes are so mismatched on the theory that there will be less unwanted drama and this is good for all parties-- maybe that is weak and just and an aspect of a control issue or passive aggressive and condescending-- or maybe it is stupid in some other way. What I know about relationships would not fill a thimble.

One bit of introspection (and I'm not judging either way) is whether the full honesty/full disclosure thing is a sophisticated lounge lizard routine-- as long as you are considering who you want to be in life (and again, here, I'm not judging either way).

[nation]

I think it comes down to whether it's my responsibility to stay away if it'll hurt her regardless of whether i told her what the deal is or not. i think that it is my responsibility if i have some idea that she thinks it'll become something more. i broke things off this morning.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
Ask yourself "are you being honest with her".

If the answer is yes, and she knows what time it is and she's the one making bad decisions, fire away.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. keep hitting it dude.

[4_2_it]

nation,

This happens in almost every 'friends with benefits' relationship. You have made your feelings know, but now you are aware that her intentions are to make the relationship into something more, you should have a talk with her. As to whether you should continue the casual sex, that's really up to the both of you, though my advice would be to end it because the drama is only going to get worse the longer this goes unaddressed.

[danzasmack]

nation,

similar situation for me lately kinda. Reiterate to the girl how you feel and call less frequently. How often do you see her? Go a week without speaking to her at all.

[PnuggPnugg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ask yourself "are you being honest with her".

If the answer is yes, and she knows what time it is and she's the one making bad decisions, fire away.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. keep hitting it dude.

[/ QUOTE ]

LDO

[MikalSjekson]

You gotta stop seeing her if you're a gentleman, sometimes you've to protect people from getting hurt at the cost of your own pleasure/benefits.

That being said, common sense says this is not your problem.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
nation,

Yeah, it's leading the girl on even if you've stated your intentions clearly. Sucks. The fact of the matter is, the girl is probably going to get hurt here because she has an emotional attachment to you far greater than you do for her. The best thing you can do for her is to break it off before she gets any closer. Like I said, it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this was pretty standard? From posts in here guess not.

I'm willing to bet that alot of guys who said keep on hitting it haven't been in this situation where you have this kind of leverage (or just don't give a [censored] about the girl's feelings, which is fine too but not what the OP was asking).

It just gets really sticky and in the end it's usually not worth the hassle - find someone else to bang ftw.

-Al

[kurosh]

Girls are crazy. One of the biggest mistakes of my life was having sex with this virgin. Every day for maybe three days leading up to it, I would tell her, "I don't care about you. I like you as a friend." Directly beforehand, I told her, "I don't care about you. I am in love with someone else. I will never care about you more than a friend." She still wanted to and ended up becoming stalkerish after I broke it off. She started invading other aspects of my life and trying to ruin relationships I had with other people. Maybe it was because she was a virgin, or maybe yours will turn out the same way.

If you've told her directly and repeatedly how you feel, I think that you are doing nothing wrong. It's her own fault. She will probably get hurt, but again, I think you are cleared of responsibility by being honest with her. Just keep in mind that she may go crazy.

[MatthewRyan]

Nation, the fact that you are stand-offish and do not panter to her is likely a strong cause of her feelings for you. So, the reality of the situation is that you are making her happy and giving her something other guys do not. As long as she is happy with this 'relationship' there is absolutely no reason it is unethical.

The fact is, even though she might think she longs for something more substaianlly, she might not truly want that anyways. The only thing we know here is that both you and her are happy. The second she tells you she is not happy, this becomes unethical.

[Emperor]

Kurosh, you are dead on correct here.

Not only MAY she go crazy, but the odds are that she already is crazy and is just in denial until something snaps.

Nation said he broke it off this morning, lets see if he wakes up with all his body parts tomorrow. :P

[nation]

Right now i'm in ac and she is in western pa, so i dont have anything to worry about right now haha.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now i'm in ac and she is in western pa, so i dont have anything to worry about right now haha.

[/ QUOTE ]

You trying to creep in on my territory? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The man answer is no
The woman answer is yes

If you're looking to become a better person and that includes this, I cut it off. I might throw up a hail mary making my intentions completely clear, telling her that you heard from a friend her true intentions and see how it goes from there.

[nation]

beat: she just im'd me saying that she does like me more than friends but will be fine with just hooking up. zero chance i will hook up with her again, this is definitely heading for hurt feelings.

[El Diablo]

nation,

Locking this now that you've decided on a resolution here and I don't see anything new being added. FWIW, I agree with the people who say you really wouldn't be doing anything "wrong" as long as you make your intentions clear. But on the flip side, I also agree with the people who say you know she'll get hurt, and you know you'll feel bad, so I definitely think you're making the right call.