NL10 - Top pair gets resistance

[DannyOcean_]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($5.65)
UTG ($5.25)
MP ($5.10)
Hero ($10.45)
SB ($7.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $0.60, UTG calls $0.60, MP folds.

Flop: ($2.25) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $1.5</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3.75

I think this fold was probably weak, but what line is better? Does anyone call or raise here? BB is short but not drastically so. If he was at 30BB's i probably pooosh TP all day, but here i'm lost.

comments?

[apple11]

I would call here and if he shoved the turn id probably give him credit for KJ AJ and muck.

[allaboutmyfetti]

call the flop. Letting 9T draw cheap sucks, but I can't think of any other worse hands that we don't want to draw cheaply on us ... plus villian's short so whatever.

I call flop, get it in on the turn.

[Panic__NL]

calling would be the worst thing to do, what is he betting, TPTK, SD, trips??? you dont know. So raise or fold, but no way u are just flatcalling here. But seeing his shortstack I think you better fold here.

[Genz]

Calling is just fine. You lose the least when you are behind and you keep your opponent betting a weaker hand if you are ahead. The only reason to raise here is that you might not want a straight draw to price himself in. If you raise here and he calls, you have gained no information at all. If he pushes, you basically have to call because of his stack size. The board is pretty ragged in general. So there is no hurry to get his money in or give ourselfs an escape route when a scarecard comes.

[pomhat]

I'd fold or raise here, more likely than not fold as your decent pre-flop bet got two callers and someone leading out on a non-draw board..

A raise has merit as you'll have a better idea where you stand, if he flat calls and leads out again i'd ditch unless you hit. if he calls and then checks i'd probably take the free card and only bet if i was sure he was still drawing

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
calling would be the worst thing to do, what is he betting, TPTK, SD, trips??? you dont know. So raise or fold, but no way u are just flatcalling here. But seeing his shortstack I think you better fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

this doesn't make sense to me at all. What is the reason for your raise? Charge draws? Value? Bluff?

If we are raising for value (either to 'charge draws' or to get value when villian has a 2nd best hand), villian is so short that we're most likely going to get $ in on the turn anyways so why do we need to raise flop &amp; let vilian get away from a worse hand? Obv. we're not raising for a bluff. I don't think a flop raise is horrible ... but this is definitely not a raise or fold situation.

[BruinEric]

What a great hand post! Because this is the type of situation I've been second-guessing myself on. (I'm newly playing NL &amp; "Other Poker" after a couple years of LHE)

My trouble with a fold is this: We just flopped TPGK after raising with QJo. If we're going to fold to a bet on any flop other than a made 2-pair or better, or a priced-in OESD, then why are we playing the hand? Are we playing it just to win blinds and limps or hopefully bumping out PF callers with a cont bet and additionally riding implied odds on monster flops? Maybe that's good enough to make this a winning PF play -- would be interesting to hear from experienced players if thats the case.

Thinking through things this way is what's making my pre-flop hand selection widen &amp; shrink as I try to learn this game.

So -- having raised PF on a 5 handed table, and then facing a bet on that flop, I think I flat call there. Obv if there are reads that this player only bets made hands, then I'm not happy with my kicker and maybe I dump it.

Then I re-eval on the turn, and if a low card comes, I'm thrilled to get checked-to (so the flop bet was either a donkbet or now he's slowplaying 2pr made on turn) -- and I'll bet. If an A falls, I probably dump it. I wouldn't mind if he made small sized blocking bets and shows down JT either. But I am enjoying the advice of others on it.

Similar situation -- last night NL10 Full Ring, I raise in CO with 2 limpers with KJo. Button calls. Flop comes J-hi, and I bet maybe 50-65% pot. Get small-raised by multi-tabler on button, and I flat call. Turn inconsequential, so I blocking bet again (half pot maybe?), and just get called. River comes and I do a weak-futile small bet and just get called. Button shows AJ and MHING.

So...somewhat similar and I am left thinking thru hand selection and how I played it. Does TPTK fold if I re-raise that flop? Thats probably a serious spew, so glad I took my smaller beating and moved on.