I flop top two and the turn flushes me out....

[HoldEmNewby]

Villain runs at 21/10/.83
Against such a passive opponent is betting the turn wrong? We obviously should fold to a reraise right? Turn bet size is too small no?

If villains aggression is 2.5 as oppose to .83 how does your line change?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($113.15)
SB ($76.43)
BB ($58)
Hero ($58.29)
MP ($50)
CO ($32.37)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($6.75) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, CO folds, Button calls $4.

Turn: ($14.75) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>....

[HoldEmNewby]

how was my flop bet size? should i bet a smaller % of the pot when the hand is 3 way on the flop then when it is headsup?

[Dilznoofus]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain runs at 21/10/.83
Against such a passive opponent is betting the turn wrong? We obviously should fold to a reraise right? Turn bet size is too small no?

If villains aggression is 2.5 as oppose to .83 how does your line change?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($113.15)
SB ($76.43)
BB ($58)
Hero ($58.29)
MP ($50)
CO ($32.37)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($6.75) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, CO folds, Button calls $4.

Turn: ($14.75) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>....

[/ QUOTE ]

I never make small turn bets like this because I'm always trying to avoid making exploitable plays. But against what you assume is a predictable, passive player it seems good to me. If your read is right, he will only raise you with a flush and will just call you with hands you have beat.

I'm not sure why you think betting would be wrong against a passive opponent. These are the kinds of players you have to keep betting against because they generally call down too light.

I don't know what I'd do against a villain with 2.5 AF. I know I wouldn't lead for $6 against him unless I did it with the intention of inducing a bluff raise, because it looks pretty weak. I'd probably check and call a reasonable bet to snap off a float (plus we probably have 4 outs even when he has us beat).

On the river it would depend on a read of the particular player and obviously what card comes out.

[miw210]

I'd pot it flop, c/c turn.

[MJBuddy]

I wouldn't have bet the turn; if he's that passive, his calls are as good as bets here.

I would've bet the pot at flop. If he called that, he was holding a strong nut flush draw or straight. Bet 1/3 pot on turn and play like you have the nut flush; call or reraise and you're cooked.

[Dilznoofus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd pot it flop, c/c turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

why c/c? If you check and he bets you should just fold assuming the bet is anywhere near the size of the pot.

I reconsidered my first post after thinking about your opponent. Given that he's 21/10 preflop he's probably weak/tight and won't call any bets without a better hand than you on the turn. So maybe we should just check/fold and bet a blank river if he checks behind.

[Dilznoofus]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have bet the turn; if he's that passive, his calls are as good as bets here.

I would've bet the pot at flop. If he called that, he was holding a strong nut flush draw or straight. Bet 1/3 pot on turn and play like you have the nut flush; call or reraise and you're cooked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is betting 1/3 pot how you would play the flush on the turn? My bets are almost never below half pot so for if I were to play as if I actually held the nut flush I would not bet the amount you recommend.

I wonder how many hands OP had on villain when this hand came up, because there aren't too many players in the games I play about which I can confidently say I'm cooked just because they call a small turn bet when I hold Top and bottom pair with AT.

I really think if he calls your hand will be good a lot of the time and you will have gotten value, and obviously if he raises it's an easy fold.

Also, if a call by Villain always means we're cooked it would seem better to simply check the turn and fold if he bets. The only purpose a bet would serve against this opponent would be to make him fold a straight draw or some weak single club. But if we're going to do this we need to bet more than 1/3 pot, which makes it more costly than it's worth given how often he will have us beat already.