Is he really a -?

[New001]

Let's say there is a person who calls himself a Christian (any religion works, really). Other people can even consider him a Christian.

Now, assume this person does something that is decidedly un-Christian: He breaks into a house, steals some jewelry, and murders the occupants. Is he still a Christian?

Put more simply, is it the belief (say, in a particular god) that's most important or the actions that's most important?

[_TKO_]

Religion is defined by beliefs.

[hmkpoker]

It's hard to be 100% consistent with your beliefs.

I'm a materialist determinist atheist, but occasionally I do some superstitious things just because they make me feel better. Hell, every now and then I even pray to God...not because I believe he answers my prayers, but just because I find the irrational thought comforting. (And no, xtians, this is not evidence for God's existence, I used to get the same feeling when I prayed to pagan archetypes back in high school, I just decided I liked the idea of one god better.)

But I'm still an atheist. Pobody's nerfect /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say there is a person who calls himself a Christian (any religion works, really). Other people can even consider him a Christian.

Now, assume this person does something that is decidedly un-Christian: He breaks into a house, steals some jewelry, and murders the occupants. Is he still a Christian?

Put more simply, is it the belief (say, in a particular god) that's most important or the actions that's most important?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think so - I think it's more of a gradual thing than a black-and-white definition thought. In other words he would be a christian who had strayed (in a fairly severe and extreme way) if this behaviour continued he would become someone who called himself a christian but who wasnt really a christian.

In my view it's a bit like being an American. You can pick an arbitrary point like citizenship or something, but it's probably true that there are some non-citizens who have lived there for ages who any of us would call an American. Similarly, there are probably people who have become citizens but who most people would label something else.

Perhaps a better analogy is a cup of coffee that starts hot and ends cold. It's uncontroversial at either end of the spectrum but it's impossible to find a barrier where it suddenly switches from hot to cold. Similarly there are Puritans and Devil-worshippers who are easy to characterise - the rest of us are somewhere in the middle...

[Copernicus]

so he goes to confession, says 20 (sincere) hail mary's, drops a buck on the plate and his bona fides as a christian are in order

[bunny]

I presume you are joking. Nonetheless, I would make the point that being a christian (or a member of any other real world religion) is more than going through the motions. In that sense, I guess if he truly atoned and sought forgiveness he would still be a christian.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say there is a person who calls himself a Christian (any religion works, really). Other people can even consider him a Christian.

Now, assume this person does something that is decidedly un-Christian: He breaks into a house, steals some jewelry, and murders the occupants. Is he still a Christian?

Put more simply, is it the belief (say, in a particular god) that's most important or the actions that's most important?

[/ QUOTE ]
It is belief that matters but the actions are better evidence of what he believes than what he says he believes.

"Saying is not believing"
"who commits adultary when they believe the wife is watching"

chez

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say there is a person who calls himself a Christian (any religion works, really). Other people can even consider him a Christian.

Now, assume this person does something that is decidedly un-Christian: He breaks into a house, steals some jewelry, and murders the occupants. Is he still a Christian?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming for a moment that he sincerely believes he is a Christian, then commiting such crimes just makes him a bad Christian.

Still a Christian though.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's say there is a person who calls himself a Christian (any religion works, really). Other people can even consider him a Christian.

Now, assume this person does something that is decidedly un-Christian: He breaks into a house, steals some jewelry, and murders the occupants. Is he still a Christian?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming for a moment that he sincerely believes he is a Christian, then commiting such crimes just makes him a bad Christian.

Still a Christian though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh! I get it... Like a christian that doesn't care so much about the rules of god, or obeying him, because he knows he will be saved! God is not such an awesome concept that you would feel obliged to follow his rules, right? Ah no, I forgot, god is love. [I'll be OK too then lol]

Very convenient indeed!

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh! I get it... Like a christian that doesn't care so much about the rules of god, or obeying him, because he knows he will be saved! God is not such an awesome concept that you would feel obliged to follow his rules, right? Ah no, I forgot, god is love. [I'll be OK too then lol]

Very convenient indeed!

[/ QUOTE ]
Trying to figure out if you're laughing with me or at me ... I'm not a Christian by the way.

I see nothing problematic about a person believeing X and, on the spur of the moment, doing Y. This is standard human behaviour.

The OP example is pretty extreme, but being free of any "sin" is not what makes one a Christian. If it was, then any honest "Christian" would have to admit that the world doesn't have any Christians (since, supposedly, we're all sinners).

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to figure out if you're laughing with me or at me ... I'm not a Christian by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you are laughing, I am laughing with you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ShakeZula06]

Fine you want the Christian answer I'll give it to you.

We as humans don't know if he truly atones for his actions. Only he and God can know. This is the main reason why the bible says not to judge other's Christainity. We as humans simply can't know, and it really doesn't matter anyways. If he says he's sorry and prayed to God for forgiveness, he'll be saved, but he could easily be lying, but as I said we can't know either way.