NL50 why cant I fold this minimal overpair?

[OrBit]

Before I hit a downswing, I was playing SUPER conservative with an overpair like this. I was pretty much folding anything here that was less than KK. After one of my posts hinting that I might have been floated, I've gotten really self consious, and Ive been calling everything in this situation. There was SO much that could have beat me here, but I just didn't like the way this guy played an overpair. It looked really fishy to me. I had my mouse hovering over fold for about 30 seconds then switched.

How about the way I played it...check that turn? There were too many cards that could hurt me in that situation...

Fold the river?

Edit: Hero just sat down, no reads.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($49.50)
BB ($79)
UTG ($43.15)
MP ($38.50)
CO ($45.50)
Hero ($63.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.75) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, UTG folds, CO calls $6.

Turn: ($22.75) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $35.5</font>, Hero calls $23.50.

River: ($93.75) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $93.75

[kewl_cph]

Call the flop.
Check the turn and hope for a cheap showdown.

You're not beating much. Without a read I'm not playing a big pot here.

[marvin_1935]

i reraise 99 pf.

when when we raise the (drawless) flop and get called, we're not worried about over cards. i would check behind the turn and fold to any reasonable river bet.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

a $2 bet into $7 pot, i'd raise ATC

[creamfillin]

I'm interested in what hand you put villain on.

[marvin_1935]

TT+/44/8x in that order.

[kewl_cph]

[ QUOTE ]
i reraise 99 pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

A PF RR w/99 is a matter of personal preference IMO.
I think a call is fine, but a 3-bet is also good if that's your style.



[ QUOTE ]
a $2 bet into $7 pot, i'd raise ATC

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right (and I don't even know what ATC is short for /images/graemlins/smile.gif ), I'd probably raise that small bet too.
When called on the flop I check any turn card that isn't a 9.

[OrBit]

I put him on an overpair.

Why did I call? idk! I have a chuck knablauch (sp?) syndrome here. I can't do the simplest of things. I'm so paranoid I'm getting floated... I was the opposite a week ago, folding anything less than KK.

I KNEW I was beat, drawing to a 2 outer, and called anyway.
My post was really to just check if it was ever good to call that...but I was right in thinking it wasn't. I like what marvin said:
[ QUOTE ]

when when we raise the (drawless) flop and get called, we're not worried about over cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
it kinda puts things in perspective.

I played a very similar hand 3 or 4 days ago where I had QQ against KK...i KNEW I was beat but this time i PUSHED!!! what the hell is wrong with me...

Hopefully I'll be able to make this fold now. I've learned my lesson.

[creamfillin]

[ QUOTE ]
I put him on an overpair.

Why did I call? idk! I have a chuck knablauch (sp?) syndrome here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol

[matrix]

preflop fine.

flop fine.

turn wtf????

check behind and pray to hit one of your two outs.

spew spew spew spew spew.

You raised his donk bet - and got called. He has a hand here and it's almost definitely better than ours. Re-opening the betting on the turn is madness.

at $50NL re-raising 99 preflop in position isn't that great imo.

I'd much rather smooth call with middling pairs and re-raise sc sootedAce type hands to make my 3bet range larger - and especially after just sitting at a table having precisely zero clue as to that peoples raising/calling ranges are, I think it's better to keep implied odds nice and high with pp's.

[eigenvalue]

An easy fold on the turn. Reraises like that are usually a very strong hand. This Villain isn't floating here.

[Loc0Loc0]

3-bet PReflop..

Especially because of a flop like this.
3-bettin preflop would be EV+ due the FE your creating. With only calling the CO has such a wide range.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
when when we raise the (drawless) flop and get called, we're not worried about over cards. i would check behind the turn and fold to any reasonable river bet.

[/ QUOTE ] Check turn, I'd call up to ~$15 river bet

[Phytopath]

Yeah PF is style dependant, but fine.

Flop is good

Turn is spew, no wonder you are on a downer. This is a textbook case of checking behind on the turn and picking off bluffs on the river. It keeps the pot small, minimizes the profit from the villians monsters and well maximizes profits.

Since you bet it you can easily fold to the raise.

[.KeviN.]

I see how raising the flop is good to chase out overs, but I still dont like it. If we raise here, what hand can he put us on that wont fold to more aggression? It also makes the pot bigger. I dunno, Im probably raising the donk to but I dont like it. Calling makes us look like we have a stronger hand plus keeps the pot small. Unless this guys an idiot, when he bets out small into 3 players into this pot he most likely either has AA,KK,AK or an 8. Raising just builds this pot if he's not bluffing plus what if the other guy is slowplaying? I might be the only one who doesnt see raising this flop as being the best play in this spot at all.

P.S. you HAVE to check behind on the turn.

[Sigurd]

Grunch, because I'm lazy.

As played, insta-fold turn. CO has a monster.

I would consider reraiseing preflop, but will usually just call when I don't have any kind of read.

Maybe reraising flop, since villains bet is so small. I'm definately not raising the turn.

[gedanken]

The OP question, I think, was not so much how to play the turn, but WHY we blew it. Maybe this belongs on the psychology forum.

I found myself making similar stupid all-in calls when changing games. What breaks in our mind to tell us to call with such a marginal hand? I suspect is has something to do with not wanting to be dominated. We feel like we're the new kid getting pushed around, and we need to make a stand.

Getting blasted in a couple situations like this will help settle you down, though, in my experience.

[ QUOTE ]

a $2 bet into $7 pot, i'd raise ATC


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that answers my question about how to play quads...

[Sniiii]

That's a very suicidal turn-bet there. As mentioned so brilliantly earlier, his raise pre-flop indicates he has something, and when he then re-raises your bet on the flop you should figure he has you beat (unless you have a read on him as being an idiot), thus you should just check on turn to see if you can hit your two outs. I'd be out of the pot if you didn't.