to cbet in a RR pot with AK

[the machine]

villain at hand is 37/9/1.46 over 100 hands and unimpresive so far.


1st question is should we cbet here??? my initial idea is yes. only problem is a cbet will pot stick us to the hand should he check raise all in. however, should he c/r all in if i cbet i will be getting the right preice to call if he has a pair that has not hit a set. im excluding the fact that he could have AA/KK here.

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BB: $95.8
UTG: $28.25
MP: $10.80
BTN: $41
Hero (SB): $51

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.75, 5 players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, MP folds, BTN calls $1.75, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.50</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, BTN calls $5.75

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($17.25, 2 players)
Hero???

[the machine]

oops disregard teh check raise. replaying the hand in my head i thought i was on the button and he was CO. but, you can give answers for both scenarios because i think they are both valuable and interesting

[the machine]

is this hand that boring??? no one have any ideas here???

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
villain at hand is 37/9/1.46 over 100 hands and unimpresive so far.


1st question is should we cbet here??? my initial idea is yes. only problem is a cbet will pot stick us to the hand should he check raise all in. however, should he c/r all in if i cbet i will be getting the right preice to call if he has a pair that has not hit a set. im excluding the fact that he could have AA/KK here.

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BB: $95.8
UTG: $28.25
MP: $10.80
BTN: $41
Hero (SB): $51

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.75, 5 players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.75</font>, MP folds, BTN calls $1.75, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.50</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, BTN calls $5.75

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($17.25, 2 players)
Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

cbet fold to a push.

[DawnToDusk]

Its okay to give up too. It might even help establish a weak tight image for you that you can take advantage of you.

Im a little confused how you can be C/R here though if you are the SB and the button has position on you.

If you are C-Betting here it is for value in the sense that you have immediate fold equity. I guess it depends on what range you give your opponent. Its got to be some strength since he called a raise and then a raise from someone OOP. Maybe not a ton since his VPIP is 37 but none the less donks get good hands too every once in a while. So with that being said put him on a range and decide how much ahead or behind you are. If you aren't that much ahead or are infact behind then you ought to bet less for value (in the sense you have fold equity). If you are ahead a fair amount then you can bet more often for the value.

[Rollos]

check/fold he probably has a pocket pair a large % of the time here.

[jonyy6788]

Umm, what is he gonna fold????

If I'm betting it's 1/2 pot, no more

[Dilznoofus]

I think giving up is the best thing to do here. It's incredibly suspicious for him to call a big reraise with his stack not closing the action. He almost certainly has a biggish pair, and I doubt he called preflop just to fold it when the flop comes 8 high.

[Gelford]

Errr ... bet slighty above halfpot and reevalute !

[Xanta]

Check/fold.

If UTG called and button folded, then I'll cbet at this. This looks like an oh-so-slowplay by the incredibly sneaky poker god button.

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
Errr ... bet slighty above halfpot and reevalute !

[/ QUOTE ]

ok this was my exact thinking.

i bet 11

he shoved

22 more to me

any PP above 88 and im a 3:1 dog which is exactly what hte pot is laying me.

can we make this call?

[Gelford]

I missed that is is a 3way pot .... well, put in a range in pokerstove and see how it goes. And if the pot is laying the correct odds to call, which I suspect it does, then you might as well just shove in the first place ... max FE !


It is a threeway pot, those in favor of check/folding might have a point, but ... well .... I have found recently that I might be slightly maniacal ... so ... err ... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[the machine]

no its heads up on the flop...

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
no its heads up on the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]


It is almost 7 am here ... Im too tired ... lol


Well, HU I am betting no matter what ... just make that calculation and decide whether to half pot or just push ... might as well push probably /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no its heads up on the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]


It is almost 7 am here ... Im too tired ... lol


Well, HU I am betting no matter what ... just make that calculation and decide whether to half pot or just push ... might as well push probably /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i just thought a push seemed to transparent since it was like 2x pot. he had 33 left. i really put him on a mid pair and hoped it wasnt 88.

i called.

he had QQ.

i made the right call after the c-bet. so i guess the question is is cbetting correct here. knowing that ill be getting 3:1 if he shoves (dont know if he realizes this) but in essence i could be pot sticking meself with ace high. meh i dunno

[Gelford]

I depends on what range you put him on .... fiddle with Stove and see what it says

If he is all pocketpairs, then you are pricing yourself in ... but if he is also mixed highcards, then you are in the clear

[21SuicideKing21]

C-bet to see where you are in the hand about 10 or something, if he shoves fold. I just think a check is just very weak, and plus he sees alot of flops so he can have a wide range of hands here and if he had something like JJ,TT, or QQ he would have re raised preflop, so you have to think hes got 88,77 so make a solid bet to scare him out of it

[Dilznoofus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no its heads up on the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]


It is almost 7 am here ... Im too tired ... lol


Well, HU I am betting no matter what ... just make that calculation and decide whether to half pot or just push ... might as well push probably /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i just thought a push seemed to transparent since it was like 2x pot. he had 33 left. i really put him on a mid pair and hoped it wasnt 88.

i called.

he had QQ.

i made the right call after the c-bet. so i guess the question is is cbetting correct here. knowing that ill be getting 3:1 if he shoves (dont know if he realizes this) but in essence i could be pot sticking meself with ace high. meh i dunno

[/ QUOTE ]

You've priced yourself in to call, but of course betting the flop is a mistake according to the Fundamental Theorem of Poker. If you'd known what he had before you made the bet, you wouldn't have done it right? In many instances you can't know enough to avoid these FTOP mistakes but this is a spot where you could have. The preflop action so clearly indicates a range of pairs TT or bigger that there should be no need to put any more money in the pot knowing you're a big dog and will not be able to make your opponent fold.

So yeah c-betting is a bad idea here.

[derosnec]

as someone who reraises alot of hands, i say check. FE from c-betting in rr pots is realllllllly low, especially on that board where no one gives you credit for anything.