Stick it in w/ KK pf?

[so sick bro]

ez fold? villain is 18/12 over couple hundred hands, takes very little time to shove this. Looked like a very easy decision for him, def don't think he would do this with any other hand besides aces. I do have a relatively small amount of experience playing this guy but he's played very textbook and decent.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($83.60)
Button ($60.35)
Hero ($46.75)
BB ($118.90)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6.75</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $83.6</font>

Hero.....

[Vyse]

Can we please stop these threads? YES GET IT IN WITH KK PRE FLOP

[crushednuts]

Since he is UTG his PFR is probably like 6% or less , I think this is a fold. He clearly isn't doing this w/ QQ, AK or JJ. Maybe KK but very unlikely

[crushednuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Can we please stop these threads? YES GET IT IN WITH KK PRE FLOP

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this is +EV given his reads. OP has given more information than most and his opponent is clearly a 2+2er. I don't think a call is hugely +EV.

[Debaser]

No way I'm folding this 4-handed. Plus it's not a huge deal but you've got slightly less than 100bb so that swings it more to a call.

6 handed I might very occasionally muck KK preflop but you have to be soooooooo sure he has AA to do it.

Normal procedure is to type in chat 'I KNOW YOU'VE GOT AA' then call and lose to J5off.

[ABCofPKR]

i dont know why but i cant fold KK pre flop... no with the reads u put here, maybe playing with a verry verry tight player i cold do that... call pleaseee

[so sick bro]

I folded here. I just can't see this guy ever sticking it in the middle like this w/o aces. I've seem him play AK, JJ, QQ. He played them aggressively, but very standard. This guy isn't just snappushing QQ pf.

[Vyse]

The fact that it takes no time is not a read at all. I do that all the time with any type of hand I have once I make a decision. I damn sure don't have anything close to the nuts when I do it, though.

[so sick bro]

what percent of the time would you expect a player like the villain in this hand to have some weird random hand or QQ-JJ. I really think he has aces &gt;90% of the time for sure. So how is it profitable to just say KKlol and stack off. For sure seems -EV given the opponent

[noob_sauce]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can we please stop these threads? YES GET IT IN WITH KK PRE FLOP

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this is +EV given his reads. OP has given more information than most and his opponent is clearly a 2+2er. I don't think a call is hugely +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah based on read I don't think QQ/AK gets pushed like this. I still don't fold though because I'm a donkey

[ItalianFX]

Yesterday I was playing .05/.10 NL. I get QQ. Player to my right, his stats were something like 30/0 over about 30 hands or so. He raises for the first time. I reraise him, he rereraises me. I figure he has to have AA because it's the first time he raised/rereraised, and so I fold. he did get another caller to his right. Flop comes xQx!!!! Oh man, I could have stacked that guy. I did stack him earlier too on another hand. Turn is a K. Him and the other guy both get all in, and flip over AK!!!! I would have stacked them both!!! So they split.

Later on in the session, I pick up AA. I reraise a raiser, he goes all-in, I call. He flips over A4s and I stack him again. I could have stacked him 3 times. My point is that I put him on the hands that beat me and it turned out I would have beat him if I would have only called him. Yeah, I didn't know it at the time, but boy would it have been sweet.

In your situation, I'm not really sure what I'd do. I'd probably fold and wait for a better spot.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fold and wait for a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is up with this logic? +EV is +EV. The goal is to determine if this situation IS +EV. If it is, even the most marginal of +EV, you're passing up money by not taking it. You don't look for "better spots" in cash games, you look for +EV advantages.

[so sick bro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fold and wait for a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is up with this logic? +EV is +EV. The goal is to determine if this situation IS +EV. If it is, even the most marginal of +EV, you're passing up money by not taking it. You don't look for "better spots" in cash games, you look for +EV advantages.

[/ QUOTE ]

blinds are going up soon though

[Montezuma21]

four handed i think his range includes QQ and AK. I would call though i do think it's marginal. it really depends if you've been three-betting him before this and how solid your reads are. 6-handed i might consider folding. and to those saying ZOMG you've got KK CALL! why? a lot of villains's 4betting range ONLY includes KK and AA.

[ItalianFX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably fold and wait for a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is up with this logic? +EV is +EV. The goal is to determine if this situation IS +EV. If it is, even the most marginal of +EV, you're passing up money by not taking it. You don't look for "better spots" in cash games, you look for +EV advantages.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are playing off of reads too. You're automatically assuming that KK is the nuts every time and it probably is without any reads to sway our decisions. Yes, +EV is the deciding factor, but with the reads that OP has, I think it makes this more questionable than most other times. I really don't think we are giving up much by folding here based on the marginality of the situation - is that even a word?

[LMAO]

I have'nt seen it mentioned, but i think it would also be important to know how you've been playing... what does villian think of you? eg. have you reraised in the last 2 orbits and taken down the pots without a show down etc, etc..

[Klopzi]

[ QUOTE ]
Since he is UTG his PFR is probably like 6% or less , I think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong. Always call with KK here. Unless your Daniel Negreanu and you've got solid read, you give up too much folding KK here.

With KK, you want to get the money in pre-flop. Just be glad Villain pushed.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think we are giving up much by folding here based on the marginality of the situation

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, that's a cop out to the situation. Are you giving up ANY value? Yes or no. It cannot be "Yes, but I'm scared of variance so fold." If it's yes, you call. Case closed.

Amd seriously guys, what reads does he has? HE PUSHED HIS CHIPS IN REALLY FAST? That is not a read at all. He's a good player? Okay, I have stats almost identical to that, I'm a good player, and if I have that kind of database on you that you have on me, I am much more liable to push vs you with AK or QQ, ESPECIALLY four handed.

[Debaser]

[ QUOTE ]
I really think he has aces &gt;90% of the time for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way.

Might he not slowplay AA in position after you reraise? Or maybe raise to $20ish so it's more likely you call? Could he not be on mega-tilt after being stacked at another table? Could he not think he has the best hand with QQ or AKs?

The problem is that if you're capable of making this fold then villain might know that. If you reraise 5% of your hands here and villain knows that you would only call a push with AA then he could profitably make this push with any ace.

I suppose a lot depends on how you play. If you're playing even slightly laggy then this is an automatic call. What are your stats?

[Phytopath]

I have folded KK 5 times PF, 4 times were misclicks/timeouts the other time is was against a 8/1/0.5 type over 1500 hands 150bb deep and he 4 bet.

Here I think you can call pretty safely, you only have 80bbs left, makes the decision that much easily.

[so sick bro]

I have been playing very solid at the table this happened at. He was there before i showed up, this happened after about 15 minutes of solid play, I don't even think I had 3bet someone oop yet at this table

[ajmargarine]

Call the push.

C'mon.

/end thread