25NL combo draw woohoo! Do you guys like my raise?

[sebbb]

No extra info

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($19.65)
CO ($23.35)
Button ($25.90)
SB ($7.05)
Hero ($26.60)
UTG ($24.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.35.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $0.5</font>, MP (poster) calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.25.

Flop: ($1.70) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $3</font>, MP calls $3, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $26.1</font>

[CaptUnlucky]

I fold this PF. I know the minraise sucks, but I just can't play these hands, especially OOP.

I also just call the flop.You have excellent odds and UTG looks like he may have an overpair, and he seems bad enough not to lay it down if you hit.

[Jouster777]

Lots of fishiness going on here...posting in MP, minraise PF, minraise flop...so its hard to make sense of what they have. MP's cold call worries me a bit and if he doesn't have a made hand he at least has a draw and we don't want to draw to a worse hand. Finally, even though we are being offered decent pot odds to draw our implied odds suck with a 1-card straight and a flush being obvious hands when they hit.

I like the push here...FE is still decent and should weed out better simple FD's or SD's.

[Vyse]

standard Post flop, obv fold PF

[Genz]

I fold this preflop, because you will be playing a weak draw or made hand from oop.

It's common advice here to play combo draws fast. OTOH you have 3 opponents who seem to like their hands somewhat and are willing to put money in the pot. Your draw is not concealed. Your straight is only a one-card draw and not to the nuts. Same goes for the flushdraw. I think I like to play it slow here. Your raise is so big, that you are unlikely to get payed off or will be faced with a better draw or a set that has a big redraw against you. Proceed with caution here.

[sebbb]

Results on the flop: I ended up getting called by MP who had QJo (no spade), so I was 56-44.

Preflop is 25c in a 1.35 pot. I can get on the flop:
- two pair (2%)
- trips (1.35%)
- flush (0.84%)

I need to win a $6 pot if I'm only counting on these. Well maybe you guys are right.

[Thremp]

sebbb,

Thats bad analysis.

Do you see why?

[sebbb]

well I didn't take into account the flush draws and straights/straight draws I could have... dunno how to to do that though

Maybe you're implying that that I only looked at pot odds and not implied odds, but I'm not comparing the $6 to the 1.35. I just think that with a $1.70 pot on the flop it will be hard to win $6 on average.

Please teach me

[Thremp]

sebbb,

Using % for flushes etc is a poor way to do this. If you plan to felt every flush you're probably going to lose monies due to the fact you'll likely be against larger flushes a ton. Same with the fact you can't make a nut straight etc.

What more important is you OOP with a bottom 5% hand and your postflop skills are likely very poor that this can't even be good from a shania perspective. I really doubt if even an expert could even make up in metagame what he gives up by the preflop call at this level.

[DawnToDusk]

After seeing the actions of the UTG player it looks as if he does have some strength. You didn't provide any information about the UTG player, but he may have enough strength where he bet another time. The MP player is always a threat to you, but right now it doesn't look like he as a lot of stength. He may be on a draw right now too. Maybe calling the flop and then check/pushing the turn would be a better line? It might offer you to see how strong MP really is.

If you check the turn and the UTG bets again and MP just calls then a push seems like a very viable play. You make money when both of them fold. You also make money when you make your hand on the turn, they call and it holds up on the river. You also make money when they call and you make money on the river. There are also sometimes where they call and you lose money where you don't improve.

I feel like calling the flop and then pushing the turn after seeing what the MP does again in response to the UTG would be a better play. It wins you more money. If on the turn the UTG bets, and then all of a sudden MP raises you might be far behind. Your draw could even be a second best draw depending on falls on the turn.

[DawnToDusk]

[ QUOTE ]
Results on the flop: I ended up getting called by MP who had QJo (no spade), so I was 56-44.

Preflop is 25c in a 1.35 pot. I can get on the flop:
- two pair (2%)
- trips (1.35%)
- flush (0.84%)

I need to win a $6 pot if I'm only counting on these. Well maybe you guys are right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a little more indepth than saying you need 2pr, trips, or a flush to win and you would only need to win a $6 pot counting on the odds of those hands you stated. Its probably higher (in fact it might be a lot higher than that) because sometimes you will get your money in when you have 2pr, trips, and a flush still lose because your opponent will make better hands come the river.

Another thing to consider is that you are OOP. You have reverse implied odds. You are risking a lot to win a little. How is that possible? Well your opponents are in position on you. They will be able to see all the action before you do and will be in a position to win the most from you. Money flows around the table towards the button.

And finally you have to make sense of implied odds. Implied odds are only good if you can EXPECT to make that money from your opponents. Sometimes you think you will and will find out that you wont. On this board, any card that compelets your hand is going to worry you opponents. You hand isn't very concealed so it will be hard extracting that $6 (or however we actually decide it to be) from you opponents.

[ADK]

i fold preflop unless the raiser is a complete donk, i'll losen up and call with any 2 cards and hope to suck out as i know i'll get paid off. but as played, i usually push as you did or just call and see what the turn brings.

[21SuicideKing21]

You can't flop much with 82s, and you seriously can't take into account with flushes and straights. Even if you flop two pair, how much action can you really get. And about the raise all in, I think you have to push with this draw.

[Mal_Pais]

This is about the best flop we can get with this trashy little hand. Since we're here, we might as well get the money in.

[spyderracing]

1) Don't post blinds OOP!
2) fold this pf
3) given the flop get it AWWWWW EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN. I don't know that open shoving this is the best way to do it tho. Raise to $12 or so, small enough to get value because you're probably ahead and big enough to show you're not going anywhere.