The Universal Appeal of El Diablo

[Los Feliz Slim]

So, we're a couple of months into the EDGF experiment, and it's an understatement to say that things are going swimmingly. Certainly, no other poster could've established such a thriving forum based purely on reputation and personal selectivity. This subject is interesting to me. But first, a related and amusing anectode:

A little while ago several posters in OOT discussed a reality-television "star" who was appearing in soft-core pornography. I mentioned this to my wife, who is a fan of the reality TV. She was like "People on OOT watch the Real World?" She was asking me more about 2+2, of which she's aware without understanding it, and later that night I showed her some of my more successful and amusing gimmick accounts (which she didn't give a [censored] about). Anyway, sometime after this I left OOT open on my computer, and my wife apparently browsed OOT for five minutes or so. I was watching TV in the other room, and she walks in and says "Hey, I like that El Diablo guy."

So this story illustrates that El D's appeal, while it may have started with his poker prowess, has certainly grown beyond that sphere. To what can we attribute this phenomenon? His writing? His jet-setting lifestyle? His seemingly limitless knowledge of all things luxurious?

For people who frequent other forums, is there an untouchable El D type on each forum, or is his situation unique? Obviously, there are those who try to do combat with El D whenever they can, like Stuey (although I think Stuey would want to argue with the most popular poster regardless, it's a rebellion thing or something). So, knowing that posters are always trying to knock El D off his perch, does anyone have an example of El D losing one of these battles? I doubt it, not because he's never wrong, but because he's good at equivocating when he's not 100% sure of his position.

Those of you who know the man IRL, does he enjoy such unparalleled popularity off the forum as he does on it? Would you say that his online "persona" is similar to his offline self, or is the El D that has so completely dominated 2+2 a character, a creation? Is there a man behind the curtain?

I've never posted on another message board, so I don't know how unusual any of this is, but I do find it fascinating. El D, please chime in with your opinion of your own ubiquitousness if you wish, I'm very interested in your perspective.

[Aloysius]

I think there was some internet forum archetypes link, and Diablo would be characterized as "Godfather" or something - so I think yes, other forums have a Diablo.

My friend is actually writing part of her dissertation on the social culture of Internet forums. She interviewed me since I participate on one - she was especially curious about "very high volume posters". In online community parlance, these "super nodes" are critical to a forum thriving.

-Al

[NorCalJosh]

this is funny. i've only posted at one other message board in my life, and there was a person like this. like 6 months after i started posting here i went back to the other message board and posted pretty much this identical thread about that other person. so in my limited experience, yes, there is a person like El D at every forum.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

diebitter >>> el diablo

especially wrt to knowledge and execution of growing internet communities

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, no other poster could've established such a thriving forum based purely on reputation and personal selectivity.

[/ QUOTE ]

no slight this forum, but i think several people could have done it.

every forum probably has a diablo. i think i was it at a kinda big tech forum. i didn't realize until i quit posting how much effort i had to put into it.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
in my limited experience, yes, there is a person like El D at every forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
diebitter >>> el diablo

especially wrt to knowledge and execution of growing internet communities

[/ QUOTE ]

When Diablo bans you from EDF, plz come to the AI Forum it is great fun and we could use another analytical mind over there.

-Al

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, no other poster could've established such a thriving forum based purely on reputation and personal selectivity.

[/ QUOTE ]

no slight this forum, but i think several people could have done it.

every forum probably has a diablo. i think i was it at a kinda big tech forum. i didn't realize until i quit posting how much effort i had put into it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed at how devoted some of you are to the forum. I just don't have the time for it!

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
I think there was some internet forum archetypes link, and Diablo would be characterized as "Godfather" or something - so I think yes, other forums have a Diablo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Link (http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/godfather.htm).

edit: That list is TOO LONG. It's easy to classify the few thousand 2p2 posters if you include a few hundred archetypes.

[guids]

If you could "eldiablo" like 20 high traffic forums, and all reccomend a stock, or a particular website to drive traffic too, or some other type of scam, you could make a ton of money. Sort of a super-guerrilla marketing scheme.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Those of you who know the man IRL, does he enjoy such unparalleled popularity off the forum as he does on it? Would you say that his online "persona" is similar to his offline self, or is the El D that has so completely dominated 2+2 a character, a creation? Is there a man behind the curtain?

[/ QUOTE ]
He's shorter in person.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
reccomend a stock, or a particular website to drive traffic too, or some other type of scam, you could make a ton of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

recommendation (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8511923) results (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=IMMR&t=3m) aftermath (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Sklansky&Number=9395245)

[grando]

this thread is absolutely hilarious

[Dids]

"My friend is actually writing part of her dissertation on the social culture of Internet forums."

In an alternate universe where I care about school, I would love to do this.

There's other forums that have an El Diablo type, but nothing exactly like him. It's a combination of personality, intelligence, and an investment in the community. It's reasonably rare because more people with the first two qualities, especially the 2nd, tend not to get into the 3rd.

[pete fabrizio]

Something feels really gay about this thread. Seriously. I'd like to participate but my heterosexuality won't let me.

[Colt McCoy]

LFS,

You exposed your wife to the super-sexual-tyrrrranosaur that is El Diablo? I can only assume that you were looking for an easy way to get her to divorce you. If not, my condolences.

[Los Feliz Slim]

Pete,

We're not talking about how much we like El Diablo, we're talking about the phenomenon of how incredibly well-liked he is. Like, we could talk about all the women that like Brad Pitt's ass without liking Brad Pitt's ass. That's just an example, though, I'm not saying I don't like Brad Pitt's ass. Or El Diablo. You see the difference?

Hope that helped,

LFS

[private joker]

But the reason I like the El Diablo *forum* is that it doesn't (ordinarily) have threads like this.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Los Feliz Slim]

pj,

Couldn't think of a more appropriate place to discuss El Diablo than the "El Diablo's General Discussion Forum".

But seriously, I'm genuinely fascinated by the social constructs we've all established in this online "world". If the fact that I made it specifically about El Diablo makes it too gossipy (and I do hear where you're coming from), think of this as a general discussion of our little society on 2+2. I just started with the Alpha Dog, that's all. Hell, Al knows somebody doing their freaking dissertation on this stuff, there's got to be a fair amount to it.

LFS

[Shadowrun]

Im still very curious to the answers of his real online persona compares to his on 2+2.

also, personally im not a big el d fan (compared to other posters i like) but that is b/c i havent been around a long time

[El Diablo]

S,

My real life personality is very much like my online one, except I'm much less of a dick because I tend to avoid people who irritate me rather than get involved in stupid arguments like I do here. In a lot of ways, my online persona here is like a caricature of me in real life with lots of parts hyper-exaggerated. I also use this place to vent a lot, which reduces my stress IRL.

[El Diablo]

All,

I'm gonna lock this soon unless it expands into a broader discussion of online communities beyond simply restating how much I rule.

[Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
But the reason I like the El Diablo *forum* is that it doesn't (ordinarily) have threads like this.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I like The El Diablo forum is because we can have this discussion without anybody accusing people of being gay (oops) or talking about Diablo's [censored].

The thing that makes 2p2 slightly unquire in terms of poster status is that it's a competative thing where you can somewhat objectively measure results.

Rather than just being founded on reputation and a cult of personality, respected posters get respect because they are very good poker players. It's much harder to keep score on say, a hip-hop forum. Folks like Schneids have a somewhat implied gravitas when they speak that has very little to do with how good they post (although Schneids does post good).

[lippy]

El D,

I think it would be in your best interests to start hiring interns from the annals uNL/The Dorm to mentor into millionaire, awesome, super neat people.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
Rather than just being founded on reputation and a cult of personality, respected posters get respect because they are very good poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dids/Anyone,

Do you think this holds true now as much as it did a couple of years ago? I personally don't play much poker anymore, and hardly ever read the strat forums. That's not to say I was ever a good poster there (I wasn't), I'm just pointing out that the "community" of 2+2 keeps people around sometimes even when the poker does not. I doubt I'm the only one this applies to.

[Dids]

James,

It doesn't in the same way it did 3 years ago, obviously. However, I think it's important in understanding part of why El D is perceived the way he is.

I'm trying to think of OT posters that I really dig that were never active strat posters, and it's not coming that easy.

[ahnuld]

Im fairly positive good strat. posters get some breaks and slack where other posters dont. And thats a good thing. This is a poker site after all.

[pokerraja]

I think this thread has potential. I have been a part of 2 other forums to about the same extent that I have been a part of 2p2. Im mostly a daily lurker who posts once in awhile. Both of the other forums that I was a part of had an "El Diablo" type of poster. The difference is that the El Diablo from 2p2 is real. I feel like he is who he portrays on 2p2. At the other forums I felt like those guys who were playing the role of 'El Diablo'were just putting up an act, because they were lacking IRL. Of course these are just my observations from a small sample size.

However I will admit I'm a fan of the masked man. Even though we had our feud back in the day, which was mostly due to my instigating. He is an icon, a legend, a man and not a myth. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Los Feliz Slim]

I'm wondering whether since 2+2 isn't just a poker site, but a site that stresses a statistically sound approach to cards, whether there are a higher percentage of people here that place a high value on logic and reason than other places on the internet. I'm continually amazed by the incredibly sharp people around here, that can't be true about other message boards, can it?

I think it's that general respect that I have for a lot of posters here that makes being a part of the community worthwhile.

[El Diablo]

Dids/JB/etc,

The poker part of 2+2 is still significant in this stuff because there's a big area here where superior logic, reasoning, and intelligence can be displayed in pretty objective discussions with a bunch of experts in the field. It's tough for dumbfks to maintain respect in the strat forums for very long. And the effect of having lots of top players in the strat forums respect your posting carries over to other forums here.

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
Pete,

We're not talking about how much we like El Diablo, we're talking about the phenomenon of how incredibly well-liked he is. Like, we could talk about all the women that like Brad Pitt's ass without liking Brad Pitt's ass. That's just an example, though, I'm not saying I don't like Brad Pitt's ass. Or El Diablo. You see the difference?

Hope that helped,

LFS

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I understand. I think the forum phenomena very popular people is interesting I guess, but I still think a thread about it, especially a specific person, *feels* very gay. Just like a thread called "Why is Brad Pitt's Ass So Great? No Really, We're Talking Objectively About the Phenomena of Great Asses" would.

Consider this a post about the phenomena of interesting things being difficult to talk about because of cultural taboos.

[wet work]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm continually amazed by the incredibly sharp people around here, that can't be true about other message boards, can it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Same here. I'm amazed at the general level of intelligence here and not to mention there are a lot of really funny people here as well. I've never really participated that much at other forums, this one is definitely the one I frequent almost exclusively. But there have to be other forums that have some pretty sharp people as well on whatever the general concept of the forum is.

One thing I've taken from this whole idea of internet forums is that I'll now go look for a forum on a specific topic, say home recording, instead of just seeking out sites that simply publish useful information. Something about the actual interaction of people, being able to ask questions and get serious and informed replies is awesome.

I guess I have seen a few of what we're calling 'El Diablo' types. I think a few seem like the real thing and others seem to be personas adopted by people, for whatever reasons.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
"My friend is actually writing part of her dissertation on the social culture of Internet forums."

In an alternate universe where I care about school, I would love to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty interesting what she's uncovered to date. She's been lurking a bunch of prominent / high traffic internet message boards (I brought 2p2 to her attention, but it's a little too narrow a focus I think for her study), and the interview she gave me was fairly generic (why do I post, what do I get out of it, what is my perception of the dynamic, "social strata", what's my posting volume etc.).

I don't read any other message boards but my guess is the signal to noise ratio on 2p2 is very good compared to others.

-Al

[Los Feliz Slim]

Al,

Could you get her to send you a list of the questions she asked and then post it? Sounds like it might be interesting.

LFS

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
Al,

Could you get her to send you a list of the questions she asked and then post it? Sounds like it might be interesting.

LFS

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I'll ask her, but since we are good friends it was more of a free-flowing conversation. She was most focused on my motivations for posting, and what I got out of participating, so it was questions along those lines. The issue of "IRL" vs. "online persona" came up too. Oh and she also was intrigued by high volume posters, and my opinions of them and their reasons for posting so much.

The thrust of the paper is online communities in general, it's for a Psychology phd.

Personally, I actually learn a decent amount of stuff reading these boards, and kind of formulate / sharpen thoughts and ideas I have. Also there are some hilarious people who post here. Sometimes I even read strat forums, but since I've only really been playing tourneys recently... it hasn't been that helpful /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Al

[Anacardo]

Al,

Do I have permission to rock this girl's world?

[Aloysius]

Ana - I don't think internet love triangles is part of her thesis.

-Al

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Ana - I don't think internet love triangles is part of her thesis.

-Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it not be tacked on? Could her research not take her deeper than she dared to imagine?

[wet work]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ana - I don't think internet love triangles is part of her thesis.

-Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it not be tacked on? Could her research not take her deeper than she dared to imagine?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Yea, maybe she needs to be involved in a real trainwreck to get the real feel of it all. Actually take a step into the murky waters of internet intrigue.

[Slow Play Ray]

does anyone else wonder how their own real-life persona compares to their online persona? i do. i know a few people from 2+2, perhaps i should ask them.

*edit to say* i think most people will believe that their online personas accurately reflect their real-life personas, but that is generally a personal bias towards your own honesty. so what i am wondering is how other people perceive it. for example, when you read a book and get pictures of the characters in your head, then they make a movie out of the book, you get to compare the characters with your initial impressions of them.

[Los Feliz Slim]

Slow Play Ray,

People who have phone relationships with me ALWAYS expect something completely different than what they get when they meet me. I have a pretty Jewish last name, I'm a talent agent, and I've been doing this a long time (started when I was 23), so they expect a little old Jew when they meet me. I am, however, tall and Aryan looking. When I meet a business person who I've known for a while on the phone, they usually spend the entire time shaking their head saying "Wow."

Online, of course I think I'm very much like myself IRL. But, I imagine other people to be much different IRL than online. I think on 2+2 I'm pretty boring compared to some of the characters around here, but in person I'm somewhat of a character. I guess I think that people are more likely to be extroverted online rather than in person. In other words, I imagine that a lot of posters are probably more boring in real life than they are here, while I imagine the opposite about myself.

Odd.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna lock this soon unless it expands into a broader discussion of online communities beyond simply restating how much I rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never met El D IRL, but I'm led to understand that he is not quite so handome as Patrik Antonius and also that he did not have any tackles for losses in 1995. So I'm sorry to say that I dispute his characterization of this thread so far.

[El Diablo]

Howard,

At least I'm not a f'ing lawyer.

[7ontheline]

I'm sure a number of posters here have read Malcom Gladwell's Tipping Point and I wonder how his archetypes apply to internet communities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point_(book)

The notion of a Connector with a wide social circle is not directly applicable - everyone here can read anyone's posts, and most people do not actually know each other. That said, perhaps people like El D are read by more than most and thus exert influence. I think on a forum like this one El D acts as both a Salesman and a Maven - people certainly do flock to his opinions and fall in line with them, and he has the credibility to produce this response. (Due to his known poker skills and business/real life success; as stated previously, this kind of credibility is not available in many other forums) Al, I'm sure your GF has a much better analysis. Anyway, that's the first thing I thought of upon reading this thread.

[Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone else wonder how their own real-life persona compares to their online persona? i do. i know a few people from 2+2, perhaps i should ask them.



[/ QUOTE ]

Much like Diablo said, I'm nicer in real life because I just don't hang around the kind of idiots that bring out my more caustic side (although there's some folks at work that get that).

Beyond that, I'd like to think I'm reasonably similar. Enough people have met me that could probably tell me if I'm right or wrong.

[ahnuld]

fwiw most people ive met irl from 2+2 have been similar to their online persona. Its the lurkers who are totally weird.

[Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw most people ive met irl from 2+2 have been similar to their online persona. Its the lurkers who are totally weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been very surprised at how many 2p2ers I've met that are just utterly normal folks. The last like giant 2p2 vegas clusterfuck I was at, there was only one person who I felt was just really obviously "from the internet".

Part of that just seems to be that there's a lot of 2p2ers for whom 2p2 was their first, and still only real internet experience (at least in a the folks I've met) so you have people more focused on something like poker than just random recreational internetting.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
S,

My real life personality is very much like my online one, except I'm much less of a dick because I tend to avoid people who irritate me rather than get involved in stupid arguments like I do here. In a lot of ways, my online persona here is like a caricature of me in real life with lots of parts hyper-exaggerated. I also use this place to vent a lot, which reduces my stress IRL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. This is almost exactly the way I would describe, and have described, the difference between my IRL personality (genuinely nice guy) and my online personality (pro bono a-hole). I attribute the fundamental causal difference to the fact that "none of you people matter." I avoid people that I genuinely would not get along with in IRL, but have also learned that real life interpersonal relationships with family, friends, coworkers and bosses are too important to damage or destroy just to be right.

Also, my understanding is that El Diablo is 10 feet tall and shoots fireballs out of his arse.

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
So, knowing that posters are always trying to knock El D off his perch, does anyone have an example of El D losing one of these battles?

[/ QUOTE ]
I do. There was a thread a bit back in BBV about the rapdurr house or whatever the hell it was called and El D was getting owned by his own jealousy. Given El D's tendency to be incredibly tricky at times I suppose it's possible he was feigning jealousy, but it all seemed too perfect.

Anyway, that aside, El D rules of course. On the rare occasions I've taken exception with his opinion he's given nearly flawless rebuttals which have left me with "yeah you win, I'll STFU now". It's also worth noting that both the volume of his posts and the fact that he posts across nearly every forum (strat, off-topic, etc.) makes him easily the most ubiquitous poster on the site.

[tuq]

Dids,

I helped organize the Phoenix get-together last summer and like you was surprised at the "normalcy" of everyone. We spanned probably 25-30 years in age and certainly played different amounts of poker (heh, actually everyone there but me played seriously large amounts of poker, the only difference being some favored online and others B&M).

Although maybe we're attaching an unfair stigma to meeting people on the internet, because for years I was part of a Links LS (golf sim) community and met a few of those guys - mostly married middle-age types - and they were all more normal than otherwise.

[octopi]

I always feel like a supernerd when I say "on this forum I read..." but sometimes the best observations/conversations come from things I read online. People don't really 'get' why I post on forums.

I find that for the most part the people I choose to interact with are wittier, have better memories and a greater span of interests than most people I know 'offline'. Most of the men I have had longish relationships with have been via messageboards, as well. For the most part, they were just as quirky offline as online, which appeals to me.

Mostly when I meet people from the Net I just clam up and get too nervous though. I guess overall, people tend to be less assholeish in real life, but just as funny and observant, overall, as they are online.

[Nick B.]

This is one of my favorite El Diablo threads.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=magazine&Number=3574856&p age=0&fpart=1)

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the men I have had longish relationships with have been via messageboards

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're telling me there's a chance.

Nick, I am partial to this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=gossip&Number=6647755&Sea rchpage=1&Main=6647755&Words=%2Bbest+-re%3A+El+Diablo&topic=&Search=true#Post6647755) beauty, although it's caused me to trust him less ever since. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Nick B.]

Tuq,
here is a transcript of a full tilt chat with the pros.

QUESTION FROM El D: jeff most call you the top WSOP player in history - do you think you will do as well in WPT?


ANSWER FROM Jeff Madsen: in the long run i believe ill have lots of success there yes


QUESTION FROM Nick B.: Who do you think the Tico Bonomo of the poker world is.
ANSWER FROM Jeff Madsen: who do u think tico bonomo is period?


QUESTION FROM Nick B.: Brandi Hawbaker or Jean Gluck
ANSWER FROM Jeff Madsen: who is jean gluck?


QUESTION FROM Nick B.: el diablo or ulysses
ANSWER FROM Jeff Madsen: the almight zues

ANSWER FROM Jeff Madsen: zeus

[El Diablo]

tug,

"I do. There was a thread a bit back in BBV about the rapdurr house or whatever the hell it was called and El D was getting owned by his own jealousy."

Hhahahahahhaha, try again. I was AIMing with raptor and durrr about that thread and thought it would be hilarious to rip on them and see how BBV would react in defense of them.

[tuq]

Nick,

Scintillating!

El D,

Guess I should have known better. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[theBruiser500]

Diablo is very smart and funny but it is wrong to say he has "universal appeal". Not sure what this thread is about, I vote for a lockdown of it.

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
(although I think Stuey would want to argue with the most popular poster regardless, it's a rebellion thing or something)

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you are wrong I suck if that is true. A good fight is refreshing anyways. I think he enjoys it, I know I do. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Diablo is very smart and funny but it is wrong to say he has "universal appeal". Not sure what this thread is about, I vote for a lockdown of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Butt out, chump!

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of my favorite El Diablo threads.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=magazine&Number=3574856&p age=0&fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]
Ahahahah I LOVE this thread.

Anyway, I think there are other "El Diablos" at other forums, but I don't know if they're as good at it as he is. I think his wide knowledge base and intelligence, and forum experience-- he seems to always know the right thing to say-- have a lot to do with it.

Also, he's usually funny.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm continually amazed by the incredibly sharp people around here, that can't be true about other message boards, can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

While I believe 2+2 is, on average, substantially smarter than average, it is true that all message boards have a tendancy to make their members seem smarter/funnier than they really are.

This is mostly due to the nature of message boards. They allow people to self select, only posting when they feel they have something to contribute, unlike conversation where people just keep talking. The fact that you can take however long you want to write responses helps too. This isnt to say some people dont suck at self selecting (maybe like this super obvious post?) and dont write stream of counciousness messes, but it certainly helps a lot.

[ahnuld]

allow, trust me when I say us posters with 5k + posts dont really self select much at all.

[w_alloy]

Do you have thoughts about every post you read? As a living breathing member of the human race, I should hope so. Do you resond to every post you read? As this is only your second post in this thread, I'm guessing you dont.

[samjjones]

Less talk about El Diablo and more talk about Brad Pitt's scintillatingly hot ass, please.

[AE6]

[ QUOTE ]
Diablo is very smart and funny but it is wrong to say he has "universal appeal". Not sure what this thread is about, I vote for a lockdown of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
erm, intelligence and humor are universally appealing.

[Nick B.]

Here is another good thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6208781&an=&page=0&vc=1

[BukNaked36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm continually amazed by the incredibly sharp people around here, that can't be true about other message boards, can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

While I believe 2+2 is, on average, substantially smarter than average, it is true that all message boards have a tendancy to make their members seem smarter/funnier than they really are.

This is mostly due to the nature of message boards. They allow people to self select, only posting when they feel they have something to contribute, unlike conversation where people just keep talking. The fact that you can take however long you want to write responses helps too. This isnt to say some people dont suck at self selecting (maybe like this super obvious post?) and dont write stream of counciousness messes, but it certainly helps a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I truly believe the posters here are smarter based on what I read. I think the people who STAY on 2p2 start out here in the strat forums dedicating their time trying to improve their game. Your avg. Joe just doesn't want to work that hard to get better and drops out after a few weeks.

[BukNaked36]

Regarding El D,

This is a poker site. His credibility starts with being a respected high stakes player. He writes well and debates extremely well. You then read a little more and find out he's an intelligent, successful entrepreneur. He's not an 18 year old poker savant that would be flipping burgers if not for online poker. All of these things build credibility and appeal.

I have seen similar alpha members on a video gaming site - www.tribalwar.com. (http://www.tribalwar.com.) Their credibility starts with being the best players at the game. Their ability to post intelligently and humorously then build appeal from there. What typically brought some of these guys down was defending a-hole team members on the forum. It's obvious the team member is a jerk, but the alpha member feels duty bound to help them. Everyone can see the truth of the situation, and the alpha member loses respect for the petty behavior which just leads to further petty arguments. El D has no one to defend, so as long as he stays solid, he can stay on top.

Overall, what I see is that the real life first impression charisma that starts with physical appeal, charm, and humor is somewhat replaced in an online forum by being good at the game.

[ledfoot]

Who is El Diablo?

[theBruiser500]

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Diablo is very smart and funny but it is wrong to say he has "universal appeal". Not sure what this thread is about, I vote for a lockdown of it.

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erm, intelligence and humor are universally appealing.

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and your nitpicking isn't

[eviljeff]

I'm selling El Diablo Forum t-shirts if anyone's interested

[El Diablo]

BN,

I think one point you mentioned is important re: general "forum cred" of anyone: "It's obvious the team member is a jerk, but the alpha member feels duty bound to help them."

This is one of two things that I think separates the way I act on forums from a lot of people. I just respond to posts with my reaction. If someone I generally like and agree with writes something I think is stupid, I say so. I just look at threads here as a place for honest debate and discussion, not any sort of image creation or political positioning or whatever. In fact, in a lot of ways I'm a lot more frank in discussions here than in real life where I care a lot more about other considerations in terms of how I'm perceived or how important it is not to piss someone off. Anyway, I think a ton of people lose a lot of respect on these forums because they just argue in support of people they like and against those they dislike, regardless of validity of their respective arguments.

The other thing that I think makes a big difference is whether or not people feel a need to voice an opinion on everything posted, regardless of whether or not they know what they are talking about. While I post tons, I also generally only post in an authoritative manner on topics where I'm an expert. I have opinions on tons of other stuff, but if other people know a lot more to me, I defer to their opinions. A lot of people feel like they have to be the expert on everything, which usually makes them just look like idiots.

[ElDuque]

I like El Diablo and everything, but I would say his "appeal" is due in large part to shear volume of posts. Granted, his posts are usually quality and, as far as I can tell, he never posts something totally lame.

When I first started browsing 2+2, El D was the first poster I became "aquainted" with, not because his posts were so profound or lol funny, but because they were freaking everywhere.

Hez like McDonalds. If you are hungry and driving around somewhere new you could take a chance on some unknown restaurant, or you could stop at the McDonalds on the corner and get the same quality big mac you always get.

[[censored]]

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I like El Diablo and everything, but I would say his "appeal" is due in large part to shear volume of posts.


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I don't agree. I was discussing this with Daryn a couple weeks ago and both have observed the phenomenon of high volume posters souring in popularity or to eventually experience severe backlash against them.

TSC
jakethebake
diebitter

all three became very popular posting in large quantities and then all three eventually saw their popularity falter.

I think its no coincidence that El Diablo is the only one in that group who makes significant contributions in the strategy forums

[theBruiser500]

The other thing that I think makes a big difference is whether or not people feel a need to voice an opinion on everything posted, regardless of whether or not they know what they are talking about. While I post tons, I also generally only post in an authoritative manner on topics where I'm an expert. I have opinions on tons of other stuff, but if other people know a lot more to me, I defer to their opinions. A lot of people feel like they have to be the expert on everything, which usually makes them just look like idiots.

response - you have 30,000 posts

[theBruiser500]

i think it's worth noting that i knew right away what the deal was with TSC, jaketheblake and diebitter

[Aloysius]

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I don't agree. I was discussing this with Daryn a couple weeks ago and both have observed the phenomenon of high volume posters souring in popularity or to eventually experience severe backlash against them.

TSC
jakethebake
diebitter

all three became very popular posting in large quantities and then all three eventually saw their popularity falter.

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Well I'd say it's a pretty fair chance that someone that has a ridiculous amount of posts on a single forum, is most likely, not that smart or cool a guy. Therefore, if you happen to be the anomaly you are really going to put your stamp on an internet forum's culture / texture / etc - popularity is a reflection of this.

-Al

[AJFenix]

I remember one time I wasn't in a very clear frame of mind and I was bored, and decided to argue with El D over something trivial in HSNL. Even though I was convinced I was right I sure as HELL didn't get a slither of satisfaction from arguing it against him, and instead felt dumb for trying while doing so and afterwards. By not giving people that satisfaction when tested, its pretty hard to get an edge on him on this forum, and him making you feel dumb for even trying obviously discourages people from going against him. PartyPoker 3/6NL was a different story, though. <3

El D, do you recall any instances on 2p2 where you felt you actually got "owned" pretty hard? In the time you've been here there have to be a COUPLE solid occasions.

[offTopic]

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I don't agree. I was discussing this with Daryn a couple weeks ago and both have observed the phenomenon of high volume posters souring in popularity or to eventually experience severe backlash against them.

TSC
jakethebake
diebitter

all three became very popular posting in large quantities and then all three eventually saw their popularity falter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'd say it's a pretty fair chance that someone that has a ridiculous amount of posts on a single forum, is most likely, not that smart or cool a guy. Therefore, if you happen to be the anomaly you are really going to put your stamp on an internet forum's culture / texture / etc - popularity is a reflection of this.

-Al

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Does this mean that low post count is the new high post count?

[El Diablo]

AJ,

"El D, do you recall any instances on 2p2 where you felt you actually got "owned" pretty hard?"

No.

[El Diablo]

AJ,

I am learning HU by playing 2/4 and 3/6 NL on FT these days if you'd like some more free money.

[AJFenix]

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No.

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Ah.

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AJ,

I am learning HU by playing 2/4 and 3/6 NL on FT these days if you'd like some more free money.

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I might stop by sometime. Mid stakes HU is all I play on FTP anyway when I do play there (which I don't much really, there are some JUICY 5/10 and 10/20 games that I prefer for making money over battling 2p2ers HU, but its an entertaining change of pace at times). Now that you mention it, I do remember a very good Nordic friend telling me about battling you at 3/6. I think I remember both of us having a good laugh, and then it unregistered. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Eurotrash]

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Who is El Diablo?

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http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5803/pulpfc5.jpg


What does El Diablo LOOK LIKE?