Set on river...

[Ryanb9]

PokerStars Game #8744453543: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/03/04 - 23:43:29 (ET)
Table 'Corvus V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: mhem67 ($61.05 in chips)
Seat 2: ryanb9 ($36.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Adorr ($67.75 in chips)
Seat 4: nickto21 ($49.75 in chips)
Seat 5: shighley3205 ($56.10 in chips)
Seat 6: Revolver_O ($52.30 in chips)
shighley3205: posts small blind $0.25
Revolver_O: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryanb9 [8h 8s]
mhem67: calls $0.50 <font color="blue"> loose, 25vp$ pfr of 7.6...
</font>
ryanb9: raises $1 to $1.50 <font color="blue"> sweeten dat pot
</font>
Adorr: folds
nickto21: folds
shighley3205: folds
Revolver_O: folds
mhem67: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [5d 9c 2s]
mhem67: checks
ryanb9: bets $2.50
mhem67: calls $2.50

<font color="blue">his fold to c-bet is 60% ...
</font>
*** TURN *** [5d 9c 2s] [Qs]
mhem67: checks
ryanb9: checks

<font color="blue"> now by the timing of his play and his hand range, i put him no pocket fives... i dono why i just got that felling, so of couse i check behind, avoiding a trap, praying for my 2 outter
</font>
*** RIVER *** [5d 9c 2s Qs] [8d]
mhem67: bets $8

he didnt think very long...

ryanb9: raises $24.10 to $32.10 and is all-in

<font color="blue"> do u guys push here? mini raise? flat call? what u think of this play...
edit: what u put him on
</font>

[Al_Money]

use a converter, snapcall river.

[cbboy]

Micro stakes.

Use a converter.

Raise more PF.

Call river.

[Ryanb9]

even w/read?

[deaders]

Al he pushed river himself. Pushing there is so standard.

[Marwan]

I'd raise a bit bigger pf.. other than that i'd play it the same, push river all day

[DanJ.]

this whole hand is standard except raise more preflop.

[Ryanb9]

oh ok, well i didnt know if i should have flat called or push for value, but as u can see i pushed but he turned over TJspades for a strait... thats why i was wondering push vs call...

[MrMxyztplk]

Ummm... just so we're clear, you are value betting that flop right? You don't want him to fold.

[Marshall28]

lol that sucks that the same card that happened to make your set made him the nuts. no one can avoid going broke there. dont sweat it.

[Ryanb9]

hmmm, i dont know really... kinda finding out where I am..

[Ryanb9]

[ QUOTE ]
lol that sucks that the same card that happened to make your set made him the nuts. no one can avoid going broke there. dont sweat it.

[/ QUOTE ]

k i feel better lol

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm... just so we're clear, you are value betting that flop right? You don't want him to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It think this is a hybrid CB. If I get called im not too happy here, but am probably still ahead.

[Ryanb9]

yeah but at the same time, with him limping / flat calling / calling like that i have no idea where im at and i have second pair to the board...
edit: 3rd on turn..

[Vyse]

Am I the only one who never reads the post if it's not converted?

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who never reads the post if it's not converted?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hired matrix to take care of this.

[MrMxyztplk]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah but at the same time, with him limping / flat calling / calling like that i have no idea where im at and i have second pair to the board...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's good. His range is pretty wide. To narrow him down to a 9 or 22/55/99+ (any reasonable hand that beats you) is nitish. Most people call this flop with a 5, and some even with a 2. You'll also get calls from overs, 66-77, and gutters. From his point of view, this flop probably missed you too, so he has reason to call. Expect more calls from air if he's tricky and could take it away from you later.

Now if your opponent is like 10/7/.5, then yeah, I start to think I'm beat. But for the most part, I assume I'm good. I would also (usually) bet the turn when the Q hits FWIW.

[Ryanb9]

interesting... but if i bet the turn and he calls, the pot is big on the river and i pretty much am done w/the hand if he bets, whereas if i check for pot controll i can call a modest bet on river to keep him honest 'n try to see what he's limping/callign etc with.. btw, #/#/# ... is that vp$/pfr/? ... sry im new lol

[MrMxyztplk]

[ QUOTE ]
interesting... but if i bet the turn and he calls, the pot is big on the river and i pretty much am done w/the hand if he bets, whereas if i check for pot controll i can call a modest bet on river to keep him honest 'n try to see what he's limping/callign etc with.. btw, #/#/# ... is that vp$/pfr/? ... sry im new lol

[/ QUOTE ]

If you check the turn, you're in a really tough spot, especially given all the cards that can land on the river that just put you more in the dark.

If you bet and he calls, then yes, you're often done with the hand. But AT LEAST YOU KONW FOR CERTAIN THAT YOU'RE DONE WITH IT.

Now it's true that you have to put in money to find out that you're bad. That's the down side. But it's not that much of a sound side.

First off, he might still be calling with one of the paired hands that you beat. If that's the case, the river will almost certainly go check check because very few people get tricky when they could already be ahead. So when you're good, you usually stay good. If he bets, you can comfortably fold konwing you were likely correct in your assumptions. And that's why I bet the turn. It's to put HIM in the tough spot where he's not sure that his pair of 5s is good.

Next, your bet folds out many overcard hands that would get a free card.

Now take the reverse look and think about it. You check. You now have no idea what's going through your opponent's head. What's his bluffing frequency? How do I know when to call the river? And how much do I call? That's really the key thing. If you know nothing about him, how do you know what bet size means what? There are just too many unknowns and you usually end up making a mistake, whether it be calling when you shouldn't or folding when you shouldn't.