$50NL I #$*(&^%(*&#$ hate overpairs

[AliasMrJones]

Villian is new at the table...What's the plan on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

AliasMrJones ($49.50)
BB ($43.15)
UTG ($48)
MP ($194.55)
Button ($52.70)

Preflop: AliasMrJones is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1</font>, Button calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">AliasMrJones raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $4, Button folds.

Flop: ($11.50) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">AliasMrJones bets $8</font>, MP calls $8.

Turn: ($27.50) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
AliasMrJones ???

[barryc83]

How is he new if he has 400bb?? I'm stacking off versus unknowns who miniraise pf. I'd prob bet $20 and get the rest in on any river.

[MrMxyztplk]

Bet $15, call push? What's the problem?

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
How is he new if he has 400bb??

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, I only looked at how many hands I had from him. Looks like I was new to the table.

[Acein8ter]

Try to get to showdown cheaply...

[MrMxyztplk]

[ QUOTE ]
Try to get to showdown cheaply...

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't be too afraid of getting the money in at this point.

[Marshall28]

id check turn and fold to a raise. if he checks behind turn though and a safe card falls, id check call a reasonable bet.

cuz like, the only hand thats conceivably in his range that u might get value from is TT. its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

which read was it that led you to believe this villain play his flush draws fast?

[MrMxyztplk]

[ QUOTE ]
id check turn and fold to a raise. if he checks behind turn though and a safe card falls, id check call a reasonable bet.

cuz like, the only hand thats conceivably in his range that u might get value from is TT. its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that you're only getting calls from hands that have you beat here, then you really have to take a look at how you're playing all the other hands when you get here. I'm guessing too passively.

[Marshall28]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

which read was it that led you to believe this villain play his flush draws fast?

[/ QUOTE ]

its a general assumption because there are no reads ... i apologize, i thought that i had typed "most of the time he will PROBABLY play it fast" ... sorry for leaving that out.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
id check turn and fold to a raise. if he checks behind turn though and a safe card falls, id check call a reasonable bet.

cuz like, the only hand thats conceivably in his range that u might get value from is TT. its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that you're only getting calls from hands that have you beat here, then you really have to take a look at how you're playing all the other hands when you get here. I'm guessing too passively.

[/ QUOTE ]

please put villain on a range that minraises and calls a reraise pf. then calls another bet on the flop AND another (large) bet on the turn that we're ahead of. i'm interested in what you come up with.

[MrMxyztplk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
id check turn and fold to a raise. if he checks behind turn though and a safe card falls, id check call a reasonable bet.

cuz like, the only hand thats conceivably in his range that u might get value from is TT. its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that you're only getting calls from hands that have you beat here, then you really have to take a look at how you're playing all the other hands when you get here. I'm guessing too passively.

[/ QUOTE ]

please put villain on a range that minraises and calls a reraise pf. then calls another bet on the flop AND another (large) bet on the turn that we're ahead of. i'm interested in what you come up with.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. You have to play OTHER hands in such a way that villain will look you up HERE w/ TT, a 9, or even 77-88, or push over you with a big draw.

[Marshall28]

maybe at higher limits u do, but not at 50nl or whatever limit this hand was.

[marvin_1935]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
id check turn and fold to a raise. if he checks behind turn though and a safe card falls, id check call a reasonable bet.

cuz like, the only hand thats conceivably in his range that u might get value from is TT. its possible he has a flush draw, but most of the time he will play it fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that you're only getting calls from hands that have you beat here, then you really have to take a look at how you're playing all the other hands when you get here. I'm guessing too passively.

[/ QUOTE ]

please put villain on a range that minraises and calls a reraise pf. then calls another bet on the flop AND another (large) bet on the turn that we're ahead of. i'm interested in what you come up with.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. You have to play OTHER hands in such a way that villain will look you up HERE w/ TT, a 9, or even 77-88, or push over you with a big draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

running big 3 street bluffs at calling stations+unknowns at nl25/nl50/nl100 is very -ev

[MrMxyztplk]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe at higher limits u do, but not at 50nl or whatever limit this hand was.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true, but how do you think you get there?

What's your postflop aggression by street? 4/1/.5? Do you make your CB and then give up agression on all but your biggest made hands?

[Marshall28]

i definitely know u dont get there by betting into people w/ a marginal hand who arent going to fold anyways.

not quite sure why exactly you think your metagame is so important at micro stakes ...

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
maybe at higher limits u do, but not at 50nl or whatever limit this hand was.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true, but how do you think you get there?

What's your postflop aggression by street? 4/1/.5?

[/ QUOTE ]

My postflop aggro by street is:

5/2.5/1.6

I'm not passive postflop if that's what your driving at. Also, multi-barrel bluffs at 50NL are a death wish.

[Marshall28]

i think he was asking me ... insinuating that im weak tight ... my AF is over 4 though.

[Xanta]

OK can we stop the meowchow dick waving and answer the question at hand. Alias, if you break down his range here you're way behind a lot of hands that an unknown might minraise and call a reraise with (AA, KK, QQ, 99, 66), way ahead of a very small portion of his range (TT, 88 maybe) and the rest of his range consists of hands that have at least one overcard to your jack. I guess I'd call this a Way Behind or Somewhat Ahead situation, but the problem is here that we're OOP in a 3bet pot and have no hope of keeping the pot small if the villain doesn't want it to be. A 1/2 pot 1/2 pot line by villain gets it in by the river.

Half of me wants to say bet/fold the turn, as in my brief experience if the villain were slowplaying something he'd wake up on the turn, and half of me seems to want to check/call a smallish bet on the turn and re-evaluate river. Check/folding in this spot is sick weak, but if he puts up a large enough bet I think that you can't continue because you will go broke on the river.

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
OK can we stop the meowchow dick waving

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

AMJ,

Lets bet again. 22-25.

[Marshall28]

xanta, check calling kinda commits us to the hand cuz like u said, pot will be too big to fold at that point. check folding seems weak, but like u said hero is only ahead of a very small part of villains range.

id be hard pressed to go on the assumption that villain is floating the flop in a reraised pot. i suppose its possible, but so many other hands that beat hero are much more possible.

this is why i recommended c/f turn but c/c a reasonable bet on the river if a safe card falls since its more likely villain tries to take the pot on the river w/ a hand he is floating that tried to hit an overcard but missed, that is, if it appears to him that we've given up by checking turn and river ... thoughts?

[Ryanb9]

w/out reading any replys, im prolly firing one more round b/c of draw's... that just my first ... reaction i guess