NL25 - shoving the flop with a flush draw

[dirtylobster]

Haven't done this much before, but I decided to reraise the flop with my flushdraw and then got odds to call his shove. Ok play?

Full Tilt Poker
$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (BTN): $25.40
SB: $45.7
BB: $7.85
UTG: $43
MP: $27.30

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.35, 5 players)
UTG calls $0.25, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, SB calls $1.15, BB folds, UTG calls $1

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($4, 3 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $3</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9</font>, <font color="red">SB raises all in to $44.55</font>, Hero calls all in for $15.15
Uncalled bet of $20.40 returned to SB

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif [5/images/graemlins/spade.gif] ($52.3, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif [2/images/graemlins/spade.gif] ($52.3, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">Results:</font>
Hero had K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (King Ten high)
SB had Q/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (a pair of Queens) and won $49.70
Final Pot: $49.70 ($2.60 rake)

I found it to be very useful to show the villains that you are capable of shoving with a draw and it paid off about five hands later:

Full Tilt Poker
$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (CO): $25
BTN: $69.95
SB: $8.05
BB: $41.65
UTG: $26.80

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.35, 5 players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1</font>, BTN calls $1, SB folds, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif ($2.35, 2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $1.65</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $5</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all in to $24</font>, BTN calls $19

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif [6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] ($50.35, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif [3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] ($50.35, 2 players)
No action

<font color="black">Results:</font>
Hero had T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (three of a kind, Tens) and won $47.85
BTN had J/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (a pair of Jacks)
Final Pot: $47.85 ($2.50 rake)

Any thoughts/insights on this? I haven't done much "flop-shoving" before. The first hand I usually fold to a raise on the flop but this approach seems to have its advantages.

[dirtylobster]

Oh, and should I generally exclude the result when posting hands?

[miw210]

Yes, take out the results.

[miw210]

Looks standard...nh.

[MyQuil]

As you rightly said you did have the odds to call his all-in move, especially if you assume the 3 other Ks were outs as well, but I think the initial reraise was a mistake. Unless you had any real reason to assume that sb was bluffing, if he had been making alot of continuation bets and other stabs at the pot then it would have been more defendable, but even then a straight call is often enough to put them off another attempt after the turn.
If sb hadn't been playing very aggresively and you had no real reason to assume that he was bluffing, and even if he was then all he needed was A high to have you beat, then a reraise is the wrong move. If you think what would have happened if you'd just called, the turn would have been useless to you and sb would have made another substantial (at least pot sized you would assume) bet and you would have been able to fold your hand as the pot odds wouldn't have been anywhere near good enough. Calling here would have saved you $21.15.
Fair enough it seems that the play may well have helped in that later hand, but that was an incredibly perfect set up. To flop a set with your lower pocket pair when there's a flush draw and BTN is holding an overpair is an extremely unlikely situation. It was unlikely that a hand like this would arise while you were playing in this session, so it was unlikely that you would get a chance like this to play on your opponents recollection of you previous play, you just got lucky. Having said that I think you played the second hand very well given what your opponent knew. I think betting after flop with your set was definitely the right move.
You have to rememeber that a flush draw after the flop is just a draw, and probably won't get filled.

[Vyse]

Unless you have reads, hand 1 is spew. People rarely bluff in the blinds.

[Check_The_Nuts]

Today I techinically had ice cream for breakfast. Pretty weird eh? It was "Xtra-Brownie" which I just bought. I never get icecream.

Then I ate some french fries. Probably the reason I'm too lazy to start my 30 page paper right now.

In response to OP, yes. I don't get this thread though, sorry.

[Sigurd]

Why don't you just shove on the flop?

[Jouster777]

In hand one just call the donkbet you are getting a decent price for your draw and this size donkbet usually means villain likes his hand.

I would like the flop reraise if SB had been the PFR...then you fold a lot of cbets, get a lot of free turns when you don't fold them, and disguise your hand to keep the implied odds high.

[Thremp]

Both Hawt.