JJ taking a passive line, when do I get away

[BobAllinSki]

Villain had only been at the table for 10 hands so no reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($42.65)
SB ($49.90)
BB ($44.75)
UTG ($49.15)
Hero ($49.25)
CO ($37.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $4.5</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($10.75) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($22.75) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $12</font>, Hero calls $12.

River: ($46.75) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB calls $44.25 (All-In), Hero($22 left)?

I'd been having a tough session and running into hands/been bet off pots a lot, I considered raising pre but any reasonable raise is going to be leaving me with a pot sized bet on the flop which is most likely going to be overs, I'm not really playing for set value but I'm hoping to give villain a chance to bet off with weaker hands

I'm happy with the flop but raising seems a bit like a bluff, on the turn I think I'm between c/c with the plan of check folding the river or c/r all in, I really dont like c/c the turn and river as almost all hands we beat will check behind on the river.

On the river I think 3 streets of betting must be given some respect but I really hate folding for half pot bets.

Whats all your oppinions, did I butcher this and if so where?

[barryc83]

I'd fold the turn. I've seen people min RR pf with all kinds of [censored] (KJ/AT/88), so I think calling the flop is fine. The turn is a weak bet but at this point I'll give him credit for a hand bigger than JJ, with QQ this is a much tougher decision. As played def fold the river, most people arent doing this with AK and you dont even beat 88-TT now.

[_TKO_]

I like barry's advice.

[BobAllinSki]

On the turn I didnt really like the fold option as I figured there is a reasonable chance of been 2 barreled, especially with the double flush draw, allthough I would expect a second barrel to be a little bigger. The flip side of this is that I might often fold the best hand when a /images/graemlins/club.gif or /images/graemlins/diamond.gif lands on the river.

I aggree with the river fold though, its what I did in the actual hand but didnt particularily like it for a 1/2 pot bet.

[Zagga]

I don't know about the river. You do het abour 3.5-1 and you do have an overpair.

I like raising the flop and folding to any more resistence tbh here.

[BobAllinSki]

Its closer to 3-1, but I think if I plan on calling the river I should c/r all in on the turn due to the amount of draws available.

The raising the flop line is one I often take but it felt to much like a bluff here

Preflop is fine. Without reads I would fold the flop, if I have a read that villain 3bets light preflop I raise flop. and check /fold turn.

[megatron]

With no reads, I am going to give the guy credit with having TT-AA or AK.

I'd re-raise the flop. If he pushes, it's a case of deciding if you think he's pushing with the TT or the AK. with no reads I'll give him credit and say he's not, so I'll fold.

Once the turn comes, the only hand I think I am beating is AK so I'm not putting any more money in.

If you think you can put him (or unknowns generally) on wider re-rasing ranges than TT-AA and AK then be willing to get it all in on the flop.

[BobAllinSki]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine. Without reads I would fold the flop, if I have a read that villain 3bets light preflop I raise flop. and check /fold turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding an overpair against a standard cbet in position is giving to much away in my opinion, raising the flop has merit but if he just calls we are in a ugly situation on either the turn or river.

[VPIP100]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine. Without reads I would fold the flop, if I have a read that villain 3bets light preflop I raise flop. and check /fold turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding an overpair against a standard cbet in position is giving to much away in my opinion, raising the flop has merit but if he just calls we are in a ugly situation on either the turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]


In other words, you just call for set value and get a better read down the road.

On the river, you cant beat anything except a bluf, this is a must fold.

[davidyang]

Do no raise flop. Do not fold flop. In this situation I would probably fold turn. River, like most have mentioned, is definitely a fold.

[holyfield5]

i dont know, i dont see many villians who would fold to a raise flop even if beat, and since i dont particularly want to get it in i would just call as played.

i would call turn and fold river and make sure to remember this line, if you fold turn also be prepared to watch for it to determine what he likes to do this with.

personally though when people minraise me PF i like to minraise them back with a hand like this to take the control back, then i can cbet on this board and go from there.

[munkey]

I fold that turn, vs villans 3bet range we beat bluff and AK/AQ diamond fdraw and not much else. He may be blocking with the NFD/overs/slowplaying but if we raise we're AI, I don't like calling either.

I will sometimes raise the flop if I think he's FOS/can fold but calling the flop is my standard approach.