$50NL - ATs flops pair + FD

[Hanibbal]

take free card on turn? No read on villain.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $36.10
UTG+1: $50
CO: $28.65
Hero: $51.05
SB: $45.50
BB: $22.95

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $2</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif ($10, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12.5</font>, 3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($35, 2 players)
Hero ??

[donkeykong2]

take free card i think, he hasn t got much left and is most likely not going to fold and your not often ahead if he calls.

[n3xxt]

how bad is a push?

[allaboutmyfetti]

I would make a PSR on the flop.

check behind on turn pho free card (i assume villian checked ahead of you)

[whoisthedrizzle]

I think I like taking the card in this spot since he's probably only calling a bet with a better hand than yours.

[Antinome]

There's very little fold equity, but given stacks you don't need any. Put him all in. get what little FE there is.

17 outs FFS! all you need is 2:1 and his stack can't come close to that.

[Hanibbal]

[ QUOTE ]
I would make a PSR on the flop.



[/ QUOTE ]

raise to $19 (3 times his raise plus pot) or so?

[monkover]

I assume Co checked... I´d check behin because i don´t think that there is a songle hand he´d call that you beat so imo there is no value in betting.

[Montezuma21]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I like taking the card in this spot since he's probably only calling a bet with a better hand than yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is irrelevant as long as we agree that we're pot committed to calling a river push, because if that is the case then we want to charge him to draw regardless. DUCY?

if he pushes river we'll have to call 13$ to win $48. i think we're committed. push.

[eigenvalue]

I don't like your reraise on the flop because there are 5 players in the pot and it's obvious that you are not able to fold out anyone. If you want to reraise, then shove to get at least some fold equity.

CO has only $16 left. If he shoves, you have to call his shove. So shove the turn and hope that he called with an OESD.

[Thremp]

Shove. All your cards kill your action here.

And you're not calling a river shove here unless you improve. DUCY?

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
Shove. All your cards kill your action here.

And you're not calling a river shove here unless you improve. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

winnar

[donkeykong2]

i think you re behind here 90% of the time and can fold to a river push unimproved.

[n3xxt]

so we like turn push?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
so we like turn push?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we're an underdog, have no folding equity, and will know we're beat if we're UI on the river and face a push, then what's the point?

I'm not claiming the situation is quite as simple as I just described (who knows -- maybe Villain just has JT or A5), but some of the logic in this thread does seem suspect to me, even though I don't really mind a turn push (since there is some chance we're ahead and also CO doesn't have much money left to play for).

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your reraise on the flop because there are 5 players in the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is kind of what I'm thinking. It's a pretty moist flop, so your fold equity kind of sucks. Just calling has the potential to build a good sized pot for your draw. I think you win the most by just calling. If anyone else raises, just push on top.

[n3xxt]

If we are villian what do we put Hero on if we check the turn and also if we push the turn? I think checking the turn sucks for the reason that Thremp said.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
If we are villian what do we put Hero on if we check the turn and also if we push the turn? I think checking the turn sucks for the reason that Thremp said.

[/ QUOTE ]

If villian had a worse hand on the flop, then he'll call a turn push, but probably just check behind with a draw. He'll also call a push with a better hand, as well as push the turn once we check (unless he's superpassive). Checking the turn here really only helps us if a)we assume he holds a better hand and we plan to fold; or b) he'll check behind a weak K or Q.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we are villian what do we put Hero on if we check the turn and also if we push the turn? I think checking the turn sucks for the reason that Thremp said.

[/ QUOTE ]

If villian had a worse hand on the flop, then he'll call a turn push, but probably just check behind with a draw. He'll also call a push with a better hand, as well as push the turn once we check (unless he's superpassive). Checking the turn here really only helps us if a)we assume he holds a better hand and we plan to fold; or b) he'll check behind a weak K or Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, we're in position, and it appears we got checked to on the turn.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, we're in position, and it appears we got checked to on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's definately worth something. The formatting of the OP had me thinking otherwise. To rephrase my post, we should avoid pushing the turn if we either plan to fold the river or think he will allow us a free showdown. Otherwise, pushing the turn is best. By default, I guess I would check behind and call a river push.

[Thremp]

TKO,

I saw you playing NL100 before. I sadly have never gone beyond NL50. Its your play in pots like this that are probably directly related to that ends.

What is this crap you are spewing with a "moist" flop? I'd get a hardon for any draw to call me. We're so far ahead of any other draw its disgusting. Do you honestly think that we can get any value when we hit our draw?

Note: After rereading your last response, you recommend by far the worst line. Its so horrid I think I might die.

[Check_The_Nuts]

Thremp:

Board: Qc Kc Ts 4h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.525% 27.69% 00.83% 597 18.00 { AcTc }
Hand 1: 71.475% 70.64% 00.83% 1523 18.00 { KK-QQ, TT, AKs, AJs, KTs+, J9s, AJo, KJo+ }

Also, I'm not a fan of preflop vs unknown...

I tried a bunch of reasonable ranges but not much looks very good. Thing is I doubt QJ or JT or whatever has the courage to bluff this river if we check turn.

[Thremp]

WTF?

[Antinome]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I would make a PSR on the flop.

check behind on turn pho free card (i assume villian checked ahead of you)

[/ QUOTE ]

[corsakh]

Yes, give yourself an opportunity to fold if no T or club comes.

[PuppyFridayYall]

A good rule of thumb is to go all in on flop here.