How do people who believe in hell rationalize it?

[furyshade]

This was sparked by the Serious Question for Christians thread, but i thought would be better on its own.

One main problem i have with accepting religion is the idea of hell, i was raised jewish and never really got how religious people could be so sure they were right. There is no actual hell in the jewish faith, but many faiths have this idea, and moreover the idea that people who don't believe in their religion will go to hell

my question is this, how can people believe in a god that would send the vast majority of the rest of the world to hell? why would god create trillions upon trillions of people in the course of human existance only to send most of them to hell?

im not looking for someone to convert me, im just wondering what the rational is here, any responses would be most appreciated.

[yukoncpa]

Originally in the bible, as in the Old Testament, there really wasn't a mention of Hell. I'm no expert so I consulted the Straightdope:

"Evangelical scholar Clark Pinnock asked in the Criswell Theological Review, "How can Christians possibly project a deity of such cruelty and vindictiveness" that He would visit "everlasting torture upon his creatures?" He says a God who would do that is "more nearly like Satan." Author and clergyman Philip Hughes says the belief in everlasting punishment owes more to pagan Greek notions than the Bible. Others disagree, referring to the Bible's notion of "everlasting punishment,"

From the Straightdope (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhell.html)

edit - This doesn't answer the question as to how some people rationalize hell.

[flipdeadshot22]

Fear is the most powerful motivator in the arsenal of responses to external stimuli given to us by evolution. The authors of the christian faith were smart enough to capitalize on this aspect of our psychological composition, and come up with the scariest [censored] thing they could fathom to in effect, coerce belief since its pretty unlikely that most people would adopt 95% of the ideology presented in the bible WITHOUT the fear of eternal damnation. Look what Bush was able to do with the anxiety and fear generated by the threat of terrorism after 9-11.

[J. Stew]

Meh, my take is that there are degrees of 'hell' or degrees of unconsciousness/attachment. Someone that is free from their 'demons' is someone who is not addicted to anything. People can be addicted to things in different degrees and therefore are bound/not free to certain degress.

Say a person who is not addicted to crack is watching a person who is addicted, and is going through withdrawals because there is no more crack. The addict will be feverish, anxiously moving around, and overall bent outta shape. To the non-addict the addict looks possessed. If the non-addict has never been addicted, he will not know where this strange behavior is coming from, to which he might coin the term 'devil' and 'hell'.

Meh, that's my take.

[MidGe]

Yeah, like addiction to consumerism... A hellish place them USA! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Wubbie075]

[ QUOTE ]
how can people believe in a god that would send the vast majority of the rest of the world to hell? why would god create trillions upon trillions of people in the course of human existance only to send most of them to hell?

[/ QUOTE ]

easy, the ppl who go to hell deserve to be there.. duh..

besides, why would they spend time and mental energy trying to rationalize hell when they are certain (as 99.99999999% of xtians are) that they are not going there??

oh yeah, and God is infinitely good and benevolent, and a mere mortal such as yourself just cannot concieve of his plan

[revots33]

Makes you feel more special, knowing you'll be in heaven while others are roasting for infinity.

[Rastadon]

They're so busy swinging from god's nutsack, they just don't care.

[Karak567]

I was going to join the conversation on this board, but in thread after thread all I see are immature Christian bashing responses, with few mature criticisms of Christianity.

Why are you guys so rabid to rip us Christians apart? I'll never understand.

[ChrisV]

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I was going to join the conversation on this board, but in thread after thread all I see are immature Christian bashing responses, with few mature criticisms of Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is a "mature" criticism of Christianity one that tactfully avoids pointing out that you believe insane things?

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you guys so rabid to rip us Christians apart? I'll never understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thread that may assist (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=scimathphil&Number=820128 6). I especially recommend the post by poster "ChrisV".

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to join the conversation on this board, but in thread after thread all I see are immature Christian bashing responses, with few mature criticisms of Christianity.

Why are you guys so rabid to rip us Christians apart? I'll never understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all this forum has been and ever will be. I stopped posting or reading here long ago for this reason. It's a shame too.

[luckyme]

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That's all this forum has been and ever will be. I stopped posting or reading here long ago for this reason. It's a shame too.

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This page has been intentionally left blank.

luckyme

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to join the conversation on this board, but in thread after thread all I see are immature Christian bashing responses, with few mature criticisms of Christianity.

Why are you guys so rabid to rip us Christians apart? I'll never understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would have to TRY to understand, first. Think online gambling, gay marriage, stem cell research....

[bunny]

The best answer I ever heard was that God is just and that justice requires that sin be punished.

[furyshade]

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to join the conversation on this board, but in thread after thread all I see are immature Christian bashing responses, with few mature criticisms of Christianity.

Why are you guys so rabid to rip us Christians apart? I'll never understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont see how my thread is christian bashing, i didn't even specify christianity, this is a legitimate question to which i'd like to know the answer, i personally do not understand the concept of a hell which damns people eternally, i think that in the course of human existance, assuming only humans go to hell, that maybe a few thousand people have beenso terrible that they deserve eternal damnation, i simply dont see how one could do so much damage in the course of a human life baring a few exceptions that they deserve such a harsh punishment.

i can't even imagine how a punishment, assuming the afterlife follows the same time the corporeal do, could damn someone for something like adultary or theft for such a long period of time, if not eternity, if you are generally a dick in life but never do anyone any legitimate harm, i couldn't imagine they are punished for that in hell.

this leads to my next question, if people who aren't really horrible, just dick, don't go to hell, then are all these [censored] in heaven? just wondering, i'm trying to do this objectively but its a bit difficult so please forgive me.

[ChrisV]

My feeling is that most religious people just try to avoid thinking about it, but as previous threads have made clear, a few are sociopaths who flat-out enjoy the idea of people they don't like going to hell. Here's Thomas Aquinas back in the day:

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That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell.

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What a great guy. Thats Saint Thomas Aquinas, by the way; he was made a saint by Pope John XXII. He's probably collecting his binoculars and some popcorn to go for a spot of damned-watching up in heaven right now.

[Skidoo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was going to join the conversation on this board, but in thread after thread all I see are immature Christian bashing responses, with few mature criticisms of Christianity.

Why are you guys so rabid to rip us Christians apart? I'll never understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all this forum has been and ever will be. I stopped posting or reading here long ago for this reason. It's a shame too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you can't beat the entertainment value of a holier-than-thou atheist.

[Sun Wukong]

I grew up in a Christian family and I have a lot of respect for religious people and I believe for all it's faults religion is a power for mostly good.
However I do have quite a few problems myself with the concept of hell and the Judeo/Christian concept of god in general.

Firstly as I understand it the idea of giving us free will is God wants us to choose to love him as sentient beings not mindless robots, right?

If we choose God/Jesus then we go Heaven if not, bad luck it's fire and brimstone for you.

Now secondly God is omnipotent and omnipresent, right?

This is where my problems start... If the above is true then God knowingly created billions solely for damnation as he was well aware (being omnipotent) they would have never chosen Jesus as their saviour.

How does this marry with an benevolent creator??

[Justin A]

"why would god create trillions upon trillions of people in the course of human existance"

A little off topic but there's been like 12 billion people in history.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
This is where my problems start... If the above is true then God knowingly created billions solely for damnation as he was well aware (being omnipotent) they would have never chosen Jesus as their saviour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christians would probably argue that god creates everyone with the free will to choose to worship him. So even though he knows many will never believe (and thus he will be forced to sentence them to hell), he is not actively preventing any single person from believing in him.

Of course, it's pretty obvious that not everyone has the same odds of avoiding hell... god chooses to have some children born in Iran, for instance, which is quite a handicap to overcome for those unlucky kids. Billions of Muslims haven't been able to overcome the geographical 7-2 offsuit they've been dealt, and are now (presumably) being bbq'ed for eternity.

I guess that's why certain groups think they are the "chosen people". Yet another way to feel more special and important than other humans, and to rationalize the eternal suffering of those not "chosen" by god to be born into the right tribe.

[Sun Wukong]

I agree with your post and the geographic problems for say Amazonian tribesmen obviously throws a spanner in the works for Christians but IMO there is a bigger problem.

[ QUOTE ]
Christians would probably argue that god creates everyone with the free will to choose to worship him. So even though he knows many will never believe (and thus he will be forced to sentence them to hell),. He is not actively preventing any single person from believing in him .

[/ QUOTE ]

In a way he is preventing people from believing him as he is aware before even creating the non-believer that said person would be a non-believer meaning he chose to create them a non-believer.

note: This really starts getting into the whole free will arguement which I find quite difficult to grasp with an all-knowing god.

Edit: My spelling sucks, I'm tired and its 7am here, just finishing another night-shift in the drizzly UK!