A couple of Christianity questions

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Sorry if these have been answered before.

1. Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

2. Where do mentally disabled people who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

3. Before the conquest of the New World and the spread of Christianity, where did the Native Americans go?

[BluffTHIS!]

Debated before ad nuaseum Chris. Use the search function and search for "limbo", "saved" and "New Guinea". The reason for the last odd term is I have a "New Guinea Question" that I have posed to certain protestants.

[LadyWrestler]

Hi!

1. Q: "Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?" A: For lack of a better, more commonly accepted term...they go to Heaven.

2. Q: "Where do mentally disabled people who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?" A: Same as 1. above.

3. Q: "Before the conquest of the New World and the spread of Christianity, where did the Native Americans go?" A: Since the Bible says they cannot be in possession of an excuse, and God is a just God, they were given an opportunity to know the truth, and - if they accepted the truth, by whatever name they could understand, they are now also in Heaven, as stated in 1. above.

-------

I hope this helps some, and perhaps - as BluffTHIS said in his post, there may be better answers in prior threads.

If you would like to discuss this more with me, in addition to in this forum, please feel free to send me a private message or e-mail.

Have a great day! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tsai Shen]

[ QUOTE ]
A: Since the Bible says they cannot be in possession of an excuse, and God is a just God, they were given an opportunity to know the truth, and - if they accepted the truth, by whatever name they could understand, they are now also in Heaven, as stated in 1. above.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately none of their mythology is anything like Christian mythology and they made no references to Jesus before Columbus, so since the jesus god is just and the only way to the father is through jebus all the indians are probably condemned to hell for eternity.

Doesn't seem just to me, but I don't make the rules.

[LadyWrestler]

Hi!

I do not believe that "all the indians (before Columbus) are probably condemned to hell for eternity." A person does not have to understand the Bible to go to Heaven, nor do they have to find or understand God. Christianity is God's way of finding us, not the other way around. I believe that if anyone cries out for God, Jesus will answer the call. There is no magic phrase that has to be uttered, words that have to be said in any particular order, or exact English name that has to be invoked. I also believe, because of my knowlede of the Bible, and relationship with God, that God looks at the heart and will provide the way to Heaven to any heart who wants to know it.

On a more personal note, I know someone, who knew nothing about the Bible or Christianity, who simply called out to God in his pain and anguish and was converted immediately. He recovered from his problem and is a knowledgeable Christian today. Had he died then instead of recovering, we both firmly believe he would be in Heaven right now.

I sincerely hope that helps you.

Have a great day! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tsai Shen]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that if anyone cries out for God, Jesus will answer the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Different cultures have so many different conceptions of what god is this is kinda silly.

So for the ancient greeks if they asked for Zeus' help, would that really be Jesus answering the phone? If Jesus was really taking calls from native americans as well, how come they never mention him and had never heard anything about christianity until Columbus?

How about the guys that blow themselves up in the name of Islam? Most of them really are doing it in the name of god because they think that this is what god wants. It seems pretty stupid to me, but they really do think that. They really are crying out to your god, a god they think they have a personal relationship with, why doesn't Jesus just tell them that this is a really stupid idea? They really are crying out to God as they breathe their last, they think they are doing his will. Do they go to heaven?

[TStoneMBD]

hello chris, first id like to say that im a theist, but have a christian background

1) children go to heaven if they die

3) im not sure where it says in the bible, but i was once taught in church that somewhere in the bible it says that if you have never been exposed to the correct god/jesus that you will go to heaven if you were loyal to your own gods or something like that.


however, i have my own adjustments on the teachings of christianity. i believe that heaven, according to christianity, isnt as easy and blissful as people would like it to be. heaven is an existence in which you sacrifice your right to free will and dedicate yourself to the servitude of god. most people are not going to be able to spend eternity obeying every commandment of god. therefore, i believe that after you die, 1 of 2 things will happen. 1, god will reveal himself to all those who have it in themselves to appreciate spending eternity in heaven as his servant. you will then make a choice as to whether you want it. or 2, god will reveal himself to everyone and anyone who wants to commit to eternal life in heaven with him can.

if christianity is true, i believe that we are all here on earth to experience a life without god. our lives are very short in comparison to a lifespan of eternity. if we were born into servitude of god in heaven, how could we appreciate it? we would never know what an existence without him felt like. we are therefore here to experience a godless life, so that we can appreciate it later on.

[LadyWrestler]

"How about the guys that blow themselves up in the name of Islam? Most of them really are doing it in the name of god because they think that this is what god wants. It seems pretty stupid to me, but they really do think that. They really are crying out to your god, a god they think they have a personal relationship with, why doesn't Jesus just tell them that this is a really stupid idea? They really are crying out to God as they breathe their last, they think they are doing his will. Do they go to heaven?"


If they are truly crying out to the real God as they die, I believe Jesus will answer that call and save them in eternity. As for the one or ones who deceived them and sent them on that last mission: I believe a different eternal fate awaits them. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Have a great day! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tsai Shen]

First, you didn't answer me fully- you said

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that if anyone cries out for God, Jesus will answer the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I said: so for the ancient greeks if they asked for Zeus' help, would that really be Jesus answering the phone? If Jesus was really taking calls from native americans as well, how come they never mention him and had never heard anything about christianity until Columbus?

[ QUOTE ]
If they are truly crying out to the real God as they die

[/ QUOTE ]

What, as opposed to the "fake" god? They're blowing themselves up in the name of their culture's predominant conception of a god.

You seem to be saying that it doesn't really matter what conception of a deity you believe in as long as you believe in something, are you a Unitarian? That seems to go against what the big J man was getting at when he said "no one comes to the father but through me" or something like that, you think?

[ QUOTE ]
As for the one or ones who deceived them and sent them on that last mission: I believe a different eternal fate awaits them. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No one deceived them, the guys sending them on those missions also believe that that's what god wants them to do. Seriously. So I guess under your beliefs almost everyone involved with suicide bombings gets to spend eternity in heaven as long as their heart was in the right place. Really just, that!

I find it bizarre that you'd really think that suicide bombers go to heaven, but people that used logic and reason and came to a different conclusion than you regarding the existence of the Christian God get tortured for eternity.

And finally, why doesn't Jesus tell these guys that he really is the real god? They pray all day and think they talk to god just like you think you do, however your beliefs are diametrically opposed. What's up with that? Are they just deceiving themselves, not really talking to God? Would they say that about you?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Q: "Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?" A: For lack of a better, more commonly accepted term...they go to Heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if:

A) Salvation is defined as an individual's soul being accepted into Heaven;

B) All voluntary acts that encourage salvation are good;

C) All children who die before they are capable of understanding the concept of God go to Heaven;

D) All abortions are voluntary acts that result in the deaths of children who die before they are capable of understanding the concept of God;

therefore, abortion is good.

[LadyWrestler]

[ QUOTE ]
First, you didn't answer me fully- you said

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that if anyone cries out for God, Jesus will answer the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I said: so for the ancient greeks if they asked for Zeus' help, would that really be Jesus answering the phone? If Jesus was really taking calls from native americans as well, how come they never mention him and had never heard anything about christianity until Columbus?

[ QUOTE ]
If they are truly crying out to the real God as they die

[/ QUOTE ]

What, as opposed to the "fake" god? They're blowing themselves up in the name of their culture's predominant conception of a god.

You seem to be saying that it doesn't really matter what conception of a deity you believe in as long as you believe in something, are you a Unitarian? That seems to go against what the big J man was getting at when he said "no one comes to the father but through me" or something like that, you think?

[ QUOTE ]
As for the one or ones who deceived them and sent them on that last mission: I believe a different eternal fate awaits them. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No one deceived them, the guys sending them on those missions also believe that that's what god wants them to do. Seriously. So I guess under your beliefs almost everyone involved with suicide bombings gets to spend eternity in heaven as long as their heart was in the right place. Really just, that!

I find it bizarre that you'd really think that suicide bombers go to heaven, but people that used logic and reason and came to a different conclusion than you regarding the existence of the Christian God get tortured for eternity.

And finally, why doesn't Jesus tell these guys that he really is the real god? They pray all day and think they talk to god just like you think you do, however your beliefs are diametrically opposed. What's up with that? Are they just deceiving themselves, not really talking to God? Would they say that about you?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Maybe.

[Tsai Shen]

[ QUOTE ]
No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lame. Really lame. You don't like thinking, do you?

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Q: "Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?" A: For lack of a better, more commonly accepted term...they go to Heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if:

A) Salvation is defined as an individual's soul being accepted into Heaven;

B) All voluntary acts that encourage salvation are good;

C) All children who die before they are capable of understanding the concept of God go to Heaven;

D) All abortions are voluntary acts that result in the deaths of children who die before they are capable of understanding the concept of God;

therefore, abortion is good.

[/ QUOTE ]
This argument is valid but probably unsound. I would guess the main problem would be in premise B. After all murdering an innocent might "encourage" the salvation of the murdered but if they were going to be saved anyway the net result would be bad if the murderer was now doomed. If the child was going to do more good than bad then preventing them from doing that is probably a bad act as well.

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lame. Really lame. You don't like thinking, do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only when the question demands a legitimate answer.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if these have been answered before.

1. Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

2. Where do mentally disabled people who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

3. Before the conquest of the New World and the spread of Christianity, where did the Native Americans go?

[/ QUOTE ]
A question for you: why are you asking people on a poker forum instead of people on a christian forum?

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if these have been answered before.

1. Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

2. Where do mentally disabled people who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

3. Before the conquest of the New World and the spread of Christianity, where did the Native Americans go?

[/ QUOTE ]
A question for you: why are you asking people on a poker forum instead of people on a christian forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

The SMP forum on 2+2 is clearly a reasonable place to ask these questions.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Q: "Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?" A: For lack of a better, more commonly accepted term...they go to Heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if:

A) Salvation is defined as an individual's soul being accepted into Heaven;

B) All voluntary acts that encourage salvation are good;

C) All children who die before they are capable of understanding the concept of God go to Heaven;

D) All abortions are voluntary acts that result in the deaths of children who die before they are capable of understanding the concept of God;

therefore, abortion is good.

[/ QUOTE ]
This argument is valid but probably unsound. I would guess the main problem would be in premise B. After all murdering an innocent might "encourage" the salvation of the murdered but if they were going to be saved anyway the net result would be bad if the murderer was now doomed. If the child was going to do more good than bad then preventing them from doing that is probably a bad act as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now we have to assign probability values. If the probability of the aborted fetus doing good and going on to save others...in fact he would have to be so likely to save others that it would override the automoatic guarantee of him being saved by abortion...then and only then would bearing the fetus be more +EV than aborting it.

But think about what kinds of fetuses get aborted! They're usualy the children of parents who are lax in morals enough to abort their kids...so they are inherently less likely to grow up Christian or be saved, let alone save others.

Allowing abortion to take place has to be +EV /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]

The SMP forum on 2+2 is clearly a reasonable place to ask these questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but maybe BCPVP means that the forum should be headed Science, Math, Philosophy and NOT Religion".

After all, out of the four topics, religion seems to be the odd one out. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Maybe there should be an explicit 2+2 Religion/Religious forum!

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if these have been answered before.

1. Where do children who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

2. Where do mentally disabled people who cannot grasp the concept of God or religion go?

3. Before the conquest of the New World and the spread of Christianity, where did the Native Americans go?

[/ QUOTE ]
A question for you: why are you asking people on a poker forum instead of people on a christian forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

The SMP forum on 2+2 is clearly a reasonable place to ask these questions.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think there are far more reasonable places to look if he wants serious, detailed answers to his questions. A forum of poker players is probably not the best. If he didn't want to join another forum, he need but ask the all-knowing Google.

[spaminator101]

1. families responsable
2. families responsable
3. hell

sry if you do not share my reformed beleifs

spaminator

[alan winchester]

I think religion is acceptably and comfortably placed under the "philosophy" heading.