PDA

View Full Version : weak play folding top set? NL50


rapsu
02-26-2007, 11:37 AM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($60.75)
BB ($41.05)
Hero ($59.10)
Button ($5.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, Button folds, BB calls $4.

Turn: ($14.25) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $22</font>, Hero calls $11.

River: ($58.25) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $13.05 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $71.30

I was pretty sure I was beat. Table was pretty passive and now I face check-miniraise on turn. After turn I was pretty sure he had 45 or flopped flush. So I decided only to call the turn bet because of great odds. And when I didnt hit my full house or quads I decided fold on the river. Is this weak play?

guess who
02-26-2007, 11:43 AM
Hum, I think I shove turn.

As played you have to call it, good odds!

rapsu
02-26-2007, 11:48 AM
how good odds there has to be if you are sure that you are beat but your hand is too strong to fold?

Dr_Mabuse101
02-26-2007, 11:52 AM
I would push the Turn. Only a flush beats you. If he has 45 your ahead. Now on the River you have a tough spot. You are getting 4,5:1 and there is small chance that he has a lower set (66,55). I would make a crying call and hate myself for not pushing the turn.

rapsu
02-26-2007, 11:56 AM
why to push the turn? He isnt going to fold?

brasilstu
02-26-2007, 11:59 AM
$13 to call to win a $71 pot, you gotta call. I agree with the previous poster I woulda shoved on the turn.

rapsu
02-26-2007, 12:00 PM
well how good odds would you have to have to call this bet?

dirtysanchez
02-26-2007, 12:02 PM
you should have pushed the turn, im calling this river getting 2:1 or greater no matter how sure i am im beat, cant say exactly what odds you need because you should have pushed this turn all day

gumpzilla
02-26-2007, 12:05 PM
Bet the flop bigger to punish Ad if it decides to hang.

The turn play looks good to me. On the river, I see the appeal of folding, but you're getting better than 5:1. He's almost certainly not consciously bluffing here, but he could have a weaker set, or an atrocious AA or something like that. I think you have to call.

EDIT: As far as pushing on the turn goes, it has merit precisely because you're going to be priced in for the river whether you hit your boat or not. So pushing will extract a little more from semibluffing diamonds on the turn, as they're going to be priced in, that you may not get on the river. So yeah, after looking at it for a bit, pushing is better with these stacks.

ama0330
02-26-2007, 01:21 PM
Bet more on the flop and push the turn. As played you have to call the river.

02-27-2007, 02:50 AM
Truly terrible play man. I would have pushed the turn All in after opponents raise. If he had flopped flush then so be it, there was possibility to still make a full house.

As you yourself suggested it, this was a weak play. Weak play as the books describe it.

Genz
02-27-2007, 03:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
how good odds there has to be if you are sure that you are beat but your hand is too strong to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are 99% sure that you are beat and there is no possibility to draw out, no odds in the world are good enough to call a bet.
Thing is, that many players will bet on the river with holdings that you don't expect. Busted flush draws, lower sets and even 2pairs that don't realize the danger or think: he didn't flop the flush and a 4th flush didn't come. And he certainly didn't draw for the runner runner straight, or that don't think at all. So you have to estimate how often that will happen. Then getting 5:1 odds, meaning that this has to happen only about 17% of the time is very good and you need to make a judgement call if villain is stupid or aggressive enough.

Thremp
02-27-2007, 03:01 AM
LOLOLOLO

Sick jopke?

Pot flop. Shove turn.

ciki57
02-27-2007, 08:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
why to push the turn? He isnt going to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm....

Because we have a [censored] top set?

eigenvalue
02-27-2007, 09:27 AM
You played that fine. At NL $25, I often moved all-in on the flop in these situations at got calles by flush draws or pairs + flush draws. But I never tried it at NL $50. But your play is good here.

corsakh
02-27-2007, 09:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
how good odds there has to be if you are sure that you are beat but your hand is too strong to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

This good.

clownslayer2
02-27-2007, 11:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You played that fine. At NL $25, I often moved all-in on the flop in these situations at got calles by flush draws or pairs + flush draws. But I never tried it at NL $50. But your play is good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^^Why do you say his play is good here?

Definitely pot the flop so you make a strong diamond pay to see more. I also agree with most other posters that pushing the turn is ideal. I highly doubt he flopped a flush either, especially with such a weak bet at the river, unless he does not care about getting paid off, and if he did, pay it off, you have great odds and you can not be 100% certain you are beat, especially with the way this was played out. I really dont see the straight either because he would have had to be holding 4 7 unless he chased runner runner, which I would not see too much at this limit, especially with a monotone board. Not calling this river bet is bad, but listen to the other posters about pushing the turn.

How many of you would call if the villain raised all-in at the flop? I have flopped a set manytimes on a monotone board and the villain has pushed, once in a while they hold the flush, which sucks but you still have a TON of outs, but many times he just holds one of the suit's and is hoping to draw out. I would definitely call it everytime with top set-monotone board I think.