uNL 101: cbetting, etc [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

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Brian O'Nolan

02-25-2007, 10:28 PM

I've been playing NL for about 6 months and I feel like I've learned enough to play well in big pots: building pots with sets/big hands, felting or folding overpairs/top pairs in good spots. I think I have a ton of leaks in playing small pots though- cbetting missed flops in position, playing one pair OOP, etc. Some of this is a function of 9 tabling, which I'm still adjusting to, so I don't pay as much attention to the little pots, bet sizing lazily, folding to small raises too often, etc. I'd like some feedback on a few hands that are kinda typical of where I have problems.

Hand 1: My standard is usually to cbet any flop HU checked to me, as long is villain isn't floating like crazy. Should I not even fire at these flops? Villain here is like 30/0, pretty passive.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($7.05)
Hero ($47.65)
SB ($43.45)
BB ($27.70)
UTG ($16.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.5, 2 folds, UTG calls $1.25, MP folds.

Flop: ($3.60) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.25, UTG raises to $4.5, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $10.35

Hand 2: Standard cbet on A hi flop? Ever fire again on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($91.25)
Hero ($24.15)
Button ($22.20)
SB ($24.15)
BB ($11.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, BB calls $1, UTG folds.

Flop: ($2.85) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB calls $2.

Turn: ($6.85) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($6.85) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $2, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $8.85

Marshall28

02-25-2007, 10:33 PM

1st one i wouldnt c-bet.

almost never fire twice on a high boards.

i could write something up that would probably help u a lot, but i just dont have the motivation or concentration to do it right now.

Triggerle

02-25-2007, 10:35 PM

Hand 2: On Ace high flops if you are c-betting you only want to find out if he has an Ace so you can get away with smaller c-bets. $1.8 would be enough I think. This doesn't sound like much but over time the saved $0.2 will add up.

Marshall28

02-25-2007, 10:43 PM

i dunno, i just really disagree w/ that philosophy. i have experimented with all different types of bet sizing with regards to this, and i have really just come to the conclusion that its best to bet the same amount and that that amount be a good portion of the size of the pot.

you may think you are saving .2 a hand, but in reality, you are giving up money the times u do have a hand, and even more importantly, you will be leaving yourself open to being bluffed more often since you seem weaker w/ these types of bets.

Check_The_Nuts

02-25-2007, 10:44 PM

I dont' cbet #1 usually. Cbetting #2 depends on what hands guy limp calls with. Its ok but if he's dumb and calls with any jack or ace or flush draw then I'm less inclined to cbet.

Gelford

02-25-2007, 10:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: On Ace high flops if you are c-betting you only want to find out if he has an Ace so you can get away with smaller c-bets. $1.8 would be enough I think. This doesn't sound like much but over time the saved $0.2 will add up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is something that I have been thinking a bit about recently. I remember having a conversation with Kaz a bit back about pf play and cbetting and Kaz pointed out to me, that on Acehigh boards he usually does not cbet if his hand has any value.

The resoning is simple, you will fold out any hand that is weaker than an ace, as the ace is such a big scarecard.

But on the other hand, if your hand has not got any value, then cbet ... if you never cbet on acehigh flops, then you are very transparant, when you hit the ace.

We must remember that cbetting also serves the function of protecting your big hands, so that you can get paid off, when your hit it.

There are two things that ought to be mentions

1. If you opponent is a very weak callingstation, there is no need to cbet off course, allthough such stations might be rare.

2. If you are against a smart observant opponent, then he might catch up to the fact that checks on acehigh flops means that you have something and bets mean, that you have nothing. But this calls for a good player, and these are also rare (at uNL that is)