Quick bet size question NL25

[cjs]

Is this a good bet size for the reraise preflop?

wpex nl 25 hero has red AA in the sb

hero $36 UTG 20 co 12.5 and posts .25

utg raises to 1.5,fold, co calls 1.25, fold, hero raises to 6, bb folds, utg folds, co calls.

[Marshall28]

6-8 is fine i think. i mean, unless u think they will call more ...

[Sir Winalot]

We're oop so I'd probably make it 7-8. I think 6 is too little because there's 2 of them. If first villain calls the 2nd villain will get nice odds to call.

[cjs]

I'm always torn between trying to get it HU and getting some action. I thought it was a little low looking back at it.

[TheGrifter]

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We're oop so I'd probably make it 7-8. I think 6 is too little because there's 2 of them. If first villain calls the 2nd villain will get nice odds to call.

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This is not correct.

You are not deep here, you WANT the action. No need to make more than a PSR.

Also, when you bet 1/2 of 2nd villains stack you are not giving him good odds to call.

Don't slowplay your big hands preflop but don't blast everyone off their hands either.

[Sir Winalot]

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We're oop so I'd probably make it 7-8. I think 6 is too little because there's 2 of them. If first villain calls the 2nd villain will get nice odds to call.

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This is not correct.

You are not deep here, you WANT the action. No need to make more than a PSR.

Also, when you bet 1/2 of 2nd villains stack you are not giving him good odds to call.

Don't slowplay your big hands preflop but don't blast everyone off their hands either.

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I never said we were deep. No, I don't wan't action, I want their money. And a multiway pot is the last thing I want.

Ok, I guess 8 is a little overkill here, but I'd still make it 7 because we're oop for the rest of the hand and to get more money in the pot, which should make it easier to get the rest in on later streets.

[EMc]

6 is fine IMO. Just about spot right, assuming UTG doesnt have you covered, or a full stack.

[cjs]

Flop came with an ace and two clubs. I pushed him in and he called.

[kbrat]

6 is fine here, 7-8 is good too

[TheGrifter]

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We're oop so I'd probably make it 7-8. I think 6 is too little because there's 2 of them. If first villain calls the 2nd villain will get nice odds to call.

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This is not correct.

You are not deep here, you WANT the action. No need to make more than a PSR.

Also, when you bet 1/2 of 2nd villains stack you are not giving him good odds to call.

Don't slowplay your big hands preflop but don't blast everyone off their hands either.

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I never said we were deep. No, I don't wan't action, I want their money. And a multiway pot is the last thing I want.

Ok, I guess 8 is a little overkill here, but I'd still make it 7 because we're oop for the rest of the hand and to get more money in the pot, which should make it easier to get the rest in on later streets.

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You are seriously splitting hairs with the bet amount. I just want to make sure people don't read this
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I think 6 is too little because there's 2 of them. If first villain calls the 2nd villain will get nice odds to call.

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and think it is correct.

[ama0330]

Im really sick of this "wow its so terrible that you are going to play AA 3 WAY OMFG... Versus one hand (assuming very tight calling range of 5%) you are like 82% favorite, versus two you are a 70% favourite. Why on earth would you want to price yourself out of a pot that would potentially be twice as profitable when you only give up a 12% equity edge? Betting 8 here is wrong because you'll just blow them both off, and if you bet 6 you not only get good value from your hand but you might actually win more when you take it down.

70% equity in a 3 way pot seems pretty much fine to me.

[gumpzilla]

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Im really sick of this "wow its so terrible that you are going to play AA 3 WAY OMFG... Versus one hand (assuming very tight calling range of 5%) you are like 82% favorite, versus two you are a 70% favourite. Why on earth would you want to price yourself out of a pot that would potentially be twice as profitable when you only give up a 12% equity edge? Betting 8 here is wrong because you'll just blow them both off, and if you bet 6 you not only get good value from your hand but you might actually win more when you take it down.

70% equity in a 3 way pot seems pretty much fine to me.

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Where are you getting those figures from? Sounds to me like you're just looking at PokerStove output, which only makes sense if all the money goes in PF.

I would tend to bet 8 there, but I think it'll frequently get called.

[ama0330]

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Where are you getting those figures from? Sounds to me like you're just looking at PokerStove output, which only makes sense if all the money goes in PF.

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Which is how you calculate preflop equity? It's basically irrelevant anyway, its a case of reducing your edge whilst raising your profits and I believe that AA is more profitable 3 ways than it is two, if by making a psb you get two calls where betting 8 would get you just one.

[BobAllinSki]

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We're oop so I'd probably make it 7-8. I think 6 is too little because there's 2 of them. If first villain calls the 2nd villain will get nice odds to call.

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This is not correct.

You are not deep here, you WANT the action. No need to make more than a PSR.

Also, when you bet 1/2 of 2nd villains stack you are not giving him good odds to call.

Don't slowplay your big hands preflop but don't blast everyone off their hands either.

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I never said we were deep. No, I don't wan't action, I want their money. And a multiway pot is the last thing I want.

Ok, I guess 8 is a little overkill here, but I'd still make it 7 because we're oop for the rest of the hand and to get more money in the pot, which should make it easier to get the rest in on later streets.

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Position doesnt matter to much with AA and roughly a pot sized bet left on the flop, on almost no flop will your position save or make you any extra monies, dont price people in for the sake of action, but dont blow them out of the water just because your position is bad short. With deeper money 7-8 has much more merit.

[Sir Winalot]

Nice. First day at 2+2 after a week-long break and I've already managed to offend half the forum without even knowing what I said wrong. /images/graemlins/grin.gif What's up with all this hostility?

Ok, I probably got a little sidetracked with my first post, but the reasoning in the 2nd post should be valid. I have a problem with 6 because we're out of position, in position I think 6 would be just fine. Also, raising to 6 gets more money in preflop (in case they would call pf and fold to a flop shove) and makes it easier to get their money in on the flop.

Yes, CO is probably a donk because he's posting from the CO. His money is going in with his short stack on the flop if he is the only one to call, so the betsize doesn't matter here. But if only UTG calls, the size does matter. If we raise to 6 we will have a 14 pot with roughly 14 left. But if we raise to 7 we'll have a 16 pot with 13 left.

I think a multiway pot would be bad because if the flop gets ugly we would have to shove blindly into 2 villains (maybe I'm just a pussy, but me no likes). Ama, I don't think it's that simple, because pokerstove calculates the odds for all 5 cards. I'm not sure what their calling ranges would be there, but they probably won't continue past the flop if they don't hit a set or whatever they're looking for, so there will be times when we won't be getting money in the middle while having the best hand.

The problem I have with both the raise size and multiway pot is that we're oop. In position I wouldn't have anything against a somewhat smaller raise and a multiway pot.

I'm not sure if all this mumbo jumbo makes any sense, but at least I tried. Feel free to correct/point out anything that is wrong in there.

[gumpzilla]

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Where are you getting those figures from? Sounds to me like you're just looking at PokerStove output, which only makes sense if all the money goes in PF.

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Which is how you calculate preflop equity? It's basically irrelevant anyway

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Yes, it's near completely irrelevant.

[ama0330]

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Where are you getting those figures from? Sounds to me like you're just looking at PokerStove output, which only makes sense if all the money goes in PF.

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Which is how you calculate preflop equity? It's basically irrelevant anyway

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Yes, it's near completely irrelevant.

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So do you raise any two cards from all positions when you play poker? If the equity of your holecards preflop versus those of your opponents is irrelevant then this would be a +EV play.

[gumpzilla]

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Where are you getting those figures from? Sounds to me like you're just looking at PokerStove output, which only makes sense if all the money goes in PF.

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Which is how you calculate preflop equity? It's basically irrelevant anyway

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Yes, it's near completely irrelevant.

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So do you raise any two cards from all positions when you play poker?

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No. But most of that has to do with how things play after the flop. Say the stacks are 400 BB deep here and villain has 33. He's making an equally big preflop mistake to call you, but so what? He would be foolish not to call you here even knowing that you had AA. Looking purely at PF equity doesn't really seem very fruitful to me in NL.

[ama0330]

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Ama, I don't think it's that simple, because pokerstove calculates the odds for all 5 cards.

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I realise this, but if you were to not look at your hole cards and raise blind to $6 preflop, get two calls, and then a magic fairy said to you "you can have any two hole cards you want!" which hole cards would you pick?

My point is that starting hands have intrinsic value and deliberately raising an excessive amount to force someone to fold what is always going to be an inferior hand is wrong.

Ps. apologies if I came off as aggressive, totally un-intentional.

[Sir Winalot]

Meh, I think we're debating over the wrong thing. All this really comes down to if villains will ever care if we raise to 6 or 7. Because I don't think they do, and have assumed so in all my reasoning.

[monkover]

I think that 6 is fine as well, 8 imo is too much we don´t just want to take down the money that already is in the pot we have freggin pocket aces!!

[Check_The_Nuts]

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Meh, I think we're debating over the wrong thing. All this really comes down to if villains will ever care if we raise to 6 or 7. Because I don't think they do, and have assumed so in all my reasoning.

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???? If your playing versus a fish who will call with 6 or 8 preflop cuz he doesn't know the difference, then obviously 8>>>>6. It makes a huge diff, $2 in more preflop and he's got that much less implied odds. If this doesn't=more money what does?

I don't see why the same analogy for 6 or 7 wouldn't hold true as well....

[TheGrifter]

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Meh, I think we're debating over the wrong thing. All this really comes down to if villains will ever care if we raise to 6 or 7. Because I don't think they do, and have assumed so in all my reasoning.

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???? If your playing versus a fish who will call with 6 or 8 preflop cuz he doesn't know the difference, then obviously 8>>>>6. It makes a huge diff, $2 in more preflop and he's got that much less implied odds. If this doesn't=more money what does?

I don't see why the same analogy for 6 or 7 wouldn't hold true as well....

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In the hand OP put up it would be much more advantageous to have 2 people call for 6 than to have 1 call for 8.

Also, someone posted that villain needs to have a set or flop huge to put more money in on the flop. That is very far off, whether you get one caller or two it should be pretty easy to get the money in against a lot of hands.

When the money is this shallow you can offer better odds to try to keep people in. If people get anything out of this thread it should be this: Exploit bad players desire to see a flop. Betting more than the pot here will result in losing a lot of hands that you WANT to call. This seems self evident but you want people to call you for 30%+ of their stack when you have AA.

[gedanken]

wouldn't it matter what your normal PF raise is? If 6 is normal reraise for you or the table, 8 is just easier to read for what it is.

[Check_The_Nuts]

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wouldn't it matter what your normal PF raise is? If 6 is normal reraise for you or the table, 8 is just easier to read for what it is.

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this situation doesn't come up often enough to have a standard reraise size on the internet. Home play or whatever is different.