25NL : Set of jacks on the river but a very ugly board

[Kramer]

I've seen this muppet minraise 3-4 times in the last 15 hands and every time he had a good hand .I've reraised him a few times with AK and AQ from the button and when I didn't hit the FLOP I checkd and he took the pot with a big bet.

He was 70/30/1.4 in 100 hands
I checked behind on the FLOP because the Q was well in his range for a minraise , and I wanted to bet TURN if he checked again.
The K sucks so I checked again.
RIVER ... [censored] spot.He is a fish so I don't think there is a point in betting.He is going to call with a lot of
/images/graemlins/spade.gif

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $16.25
CO: $21.20
Hero: $40.15
SB: $30.85
BB: $15.10

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $0.5</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.8</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif ($4, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($4, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: J/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($4, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: $4
Comments on my line ?

[barryc83]

I'd still prob bet flop. I wouldnt bet the river bc he wont call without a spade probably.

[creamfillin]

I think you have to bet that flop and find out where you're at. You reraised him and it is unlikely he is going to float you without a queen.

[avfletch]

A Q is definitely within his range but so are a lot of other holdings that you would be happy to see him have. I'd follow through on the flop with a cbet.

[Kramer]

His is 70/30 so he will float me a lot.He has called with junk before and I reraised his minraise a few times in position.
If he C/C FLOP what do you do on the TURN ?
If I bet FLOP and he CR are you folding?
He could play back at me on that flop a lot of times and I wouldn't know what to do.

I check FLOP.Call small bet on TURN and fold river if he bets again.(that was the first plan )

[ssdex]

3/4 pot on the flop..... i think about 3 dollars will work, hes folding anything less than a Q or better..... Did he have AK? As played have to check the turn and river and hope your set beats a non spade pair or ak

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
His is 70/30 so he will float me a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is flawed thinking imo. Just becase he has a wide range preflop doesn't mean he floats a lot postflop. Once the flop comes out it's a whole different game and you can't presume anything based on his preflop stats.

[ QUOTE ]
He has called with junk before and I reraised his minraise a few times in position.
If he C/C FLOP what do you do on the TURN ?

[/ QUOTE ]

This particular flop I'm definitely checking behind planning to call at most a small river bet. On less ugly river cards I'm probably putting out a reasonable bet myself to keep control of the hand, figuring he'll wake up if I'm beat and protecting my hand against the fairly wide range of ugly cards that can hit on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
If I bet FLOP and he CR are you folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. At that point you're only beating a bluff and a load of the time he'll be semi-bluffing so will still end up ahead.

[ QUOTE ]
He could play back at me on that flop a lot of times and I wouldn't know what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because having some one play back at you makes your life hard this doesn't mean you shouldn't be maintaining your usual level of aggression.

[Kramer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His is 70/30 so he will float me a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is flawed thinking imo. Just becase he has a wide range preflop doesn't mean he floats a lot postflop. Once the flop comes out it's a whole different game and you can't presume anything based on his preflop stats.

[ QUOTE ]
He has called with junk before and I reraised his minraise a few times in position.
If he C/C FLOP what do you do on the TURN ?

[/ QUOTE ]

This particular flop I'm definitely checking behind planning to call at most a small river bet. On less ugly river cards I'm probably putting out a reasonable bet myself to keep control of the hand, figuring he'll wake up if I'm beat and protecting my hand against the fairly wide range of ugly cards that can hit on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
If I bet FLOP and he CR are you folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. At that point you're only beating a bluff and a load of the time he'll be semi-bluffing so will still end up ahead.

[ QUOTE ]
He could play back at me on that flop a lot of times and I wouldn't know what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because having some one play back at you makes your life hard this doesn't mean you shouldn't be maintaining your usual level of aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said he has called with junk a lot of times when I raised and he called .
Why put myself in a tough spot on the FLOP and risk a CR when I can check behind and if he has me beat he will bet TURN,he will bet TURN sometimes with small PP (I still have 2 outs so I still have a chance if I'm behind)?

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
As I said he has called with junk a lot of times when I raised and he called .
Why put myself in a tough spot on the FLOP and risk a CR when I can check behind and if he has me beat he will bet TURN,he will bet TURN sometimes with small PP (I still have 2 outs so I still have a chance if I'm behind)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because him calling really wide here is a good thing. If he wants to throw money away then I want to give him the opportunity.

How often has he been c/r'ing you to make you worried about it happening here?

[Kramer]

Why don't you like this line?
check FLOP.Call bet on TURN and fold to a big bet on the RIVER?

I think this way I can get some value out of small PP that he could have minraised and called a reraise.
Lets say he has 99.
I check FLOP and he thinks his 99 is good so he bets TURN and I call.Now he doesn't like his hand and a lot of times he will check RIVER or make retarded minbet..

If I bet FLOP he will fold 99 sometimes or he will call.So we won't be shure about our hand.
And in the case he is slowplaying some big hand we can still catch one of our 2 outs on the TURN.... /images/graemlins/grin.gif