!@#$ - Am I just 10NL dumb? (several hands) [Archive]

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cubase

02-25-2007, 04:54 AM

Need some checkups here please. Just played a session with a clear focused mind (so I thought). Felt like I just took a beating (-2.3 buyins over 300 hands). Nothing was working tonight. Argh.

Running near my average: 19.19/12.12/3.13. Was limping a bit more on one table simply because it was extremely passive, so I could get in cheap UTG, UTG+1 and usually see a flop.

Here are a few hands from the many... Comments everywhere welcome. I've numbered the hands to make responses easier. Much thanks to anyone who goes through these.

----- Hand #1 -----
This table was pretty passive, so if I found myself looking at suited connectors in EP, I'd often limp in cheaply. Most pre-flop raises on this table were coming from me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($8.05)
SB ($18.05)
BB ($7.50)
UTG ($4.30)
Hero ($13.80)
CO ($12)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.35) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.3, BB raises to $0.7, UTG folds, Hero calls $0.40.

Turn: ($1.75) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.9, Hero calls $0.90.

River: ($3.55) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $5.8 (All-In), Hero ??

----- Hand #2 -----

Got to see a free-flop here. And what a flop indeed. Flush+double-gutter... I decide to build up the pot...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($12.55)
UTG ($14)
MP ($6.30)
Button ($3.40)
SB ($16.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.35) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.3, UTG folds, MP calls $0.30.

Turn: ($0.95) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, MP calls $1.50.

River: ($3.95) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, MP raises to $4.4, Hero calls $0.90.

Final Pot: $12.75

----- Hand #3 -----
Obviously I can't call the river bet, but wtf does the villian have? Is this just general spew? Even if he thinks I'm bluffing and is calling to the river with med PP, I could have finally made a hand...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($8.05)
Hero ($9.90)
BB ($5.40)
UTG ($14.30)
MP ($1.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.5, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.40.

Flop: ($1.50) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($1.50) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB folds, UTG calls $1.25.

River: ($4) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2.75, UTG raises to $8.35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $15.10

----- Hand #4 -----
I'd been raising the villian constantly. Everytime he limped it seemed I was raising and he was folding, or calling and folding to my c-bet. This time, it seemed like he had enough and decided to pop me... standard push with JJ here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($6)
BB ($5)
UTG ($6.45)
MP ($4.10)
Hero ($18.30)
Button ($14.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.5, 3 folds, MP raises to $1.3, Hero raises to $6, MP calls $2.80 (All-In).

Flop: ($10.25) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($10.25) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($10.25) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $10.25

----- Hand #5 -----
Most times I raise with AK OOPs. Sometimes I don't. This time I didn't... Now with the board I'd like to keep the pot small. Yes, I'm giving a free card possibly, but I'm okay with that. As long as we brick on the turn, I can make a small bet and check call the river as long as it doesn't flush. Good thinking? Wrong thinking? How is the line all the way to river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($4.60)
MP ($6)
Button ($7.45)
Hero ($14.50)
BB ($9.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.10, MP (poster) raises to $0.2, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.10.

Flop: ($0.70) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($0.70) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.7, UTG calls $0.70, MP calls $0.70.

River: ($2.80) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $1.5, Hero calls $1.50, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $5.80

Thanks.

Khumalo

02-25-2007, 06:18 AM

HAND 1)
Since you decided to call the turn, I think it's quite hard to fold when you hit your straight on the river. Villain is playing his hand very aggressively given that he limped and that this is 10NL. A6 seems like a possibility (77 also.) In a way that reduces the chances that he's semi-bluffing with a pure FD or a bigger straight draw, though it ups the chances that he has something like 86 of clubs. It's a tough laydown, and absent any reads, I think calling here at this level is at least marginally +EV, since he may push with any 6x. His flop raise suggests that x = something strongly related to the board, however.

HAND 2)
Any info on whether this villain ever limps with biggish hands like AQ preflop? On average, I'd say it's not that likely. This leaves Q9 as the only (realistic) hand that beats you. Usually you're splitting some of the time here, and winning a good deal against 2 pair / low sets. Plus he's a shorty. Other than your turn overbet (which seems wrong in principle), I see nothing wrong with how you played here.

HAND 3)
River fold is standard. Your delayed c-bet on the turn was a nice variation on OOP c-betting: they both checked behind on the flop, the deuce turn was a pure blank, so you fired. Once you're called, I think that at this level, a minimal read is required (villain is not a huge station) before second barreling on the river. Still, the Jack is kind of a scare card, so your bet could not have been that bad. Villain was either slowplaying a monster, or he made two pair on the river (J9 maybe.) Or he's a maniac, and you can stack him later, since maniacs at this level are terrible 99% of the time.

HAND 4)
Yes, getting all-in pf versus a shorty you've been repeatedly abusing is never going to be a big mistake, and is probably ++EV versus 85% of villains at this level in this kind of spot. If he happened to have a bigger hand, just move on. If the guy had like 150 BBs, then it's a somewhat different scenario (but only somewhat.)

HAND 5)
I don't like your flop check. Not raising pf is fine as a variation, but you should lead this flop purely as a way to charge any lone heart to draw, you're missing value otherwise, and you can still exercise pot control by betting smallish. So you check the flop, then pot the turn? I would make the turn bet smaller (say 2/3rds), but I guess that's just nitpicking, since many players at this level will still draw to their flush on the turn getting terrible odds. Your check-call on the river is super-standard. If villain had a made flush or an 8xh, you more or less played optimally against such a holding. There are no glaring mistakes in this hand. I just think you should make reasonable bets on flop AND turn to maximize value in general in this spot.

On the basis of this sample, my personal opinion is that no, you do not appear to be 10NL dumb! This is just variance and even solid players can swing negative ~3 buy-ins at 10NL. Once one gets to something like -7 buy ins, I would start to worry and re-examine all the big pots very carefully.

cubase

02-25-2007, 05:56 PM

Thx for the thoughts. It's not often I've seen such a swing of everything going wrong when I felt like I was playing pretty sharp (sharp for me anyway). I've dropped 4-5 buyins before due to tilt, bluffing calling stations, etc... easily identifable leaks... but last night I felt like I was playing very solid for me.

The other thing I noted, however, was that I ignored the little inner voice... it keeps trying to talk to me and it seems to be pretty solid in reading hands... Need to figure out how to listen to it better.

Thx for taking the time to peruse those hands.

ama0330

02-25-2007, 07:34 PM

Hand 1

Fold preflop. It doesnt matter how passive the table is, this hand will never be profitable OOP. Release it and move on. On the button, raise it. Here, easy fold. I used to fall into this trap too, limping speculative hands OOP, it doesnt work. Trust me. Just fold.

Flop bet is fine, fold to the raise. Fold the turn, river is a tough one and you wouldnt have this decision to make had you not got yourself into this mess by playing OOP! See what I mean? I might just call because its 5 bucks which is like less than a super size meal but blah. Fold, call, whatever. I might call here.

Hand 2

Preflop fine.

Flop fine.

Turn wtf, dont overbet ever, waste of money and un-necessary. Ill bet this sometimes but given that he probs has a king considering how ppl play down here ill check call it too. I dont like my hand anymore if he bets big.

River standard, bad luck if you lost. Q9? AQ? Sucks to lose there. I might c/c because I think that if he calls he's calling to split really, meh I guess he can call sets/2pr. Pretty standard hand really, but I go for pot control on the turn.

Hand 3

Preflop fine.

You can bet flop for about $1, shut down if called, depending on table texture. If the table is really loose just check it like you have.

Turn bet is fine, maybe a little less is okay. ONCE YOU GET CALLED, ITS OVER. Your river bet is terrible, villain probably has 22. Do not ever bet this river, you are definately behind and you have no FE. Dont do it. Probably 22/JJ/wierd 2pr here. No FE. Ugly.

Hand 4

Standard given history I think. I might call the raise and play poker but I dont know how NL10 plays. If you lost this hand with the J on the board, that sucks. Note that going AI with less than KK at NL10 is a terrible idea, and Im only endorsing this due to history. I like a call and see a flop (c/f to pressure) normally, and thinking about it theres a good chance you are done here. Villain's got his hand to play back at you. Given how short he is though this is probably okay.

Hand 5

Preflop fine. Hmm i like a bet on the flop here. Bet, check, check-call is a much better line for pot control than betting the turn and river IMO, as it gives you a better balance reads-wise.

I like a smaller bet on the turn and river is fine.

ama0330

02-25-2007, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The other thing I noted, however, was that I ignored the little inner voice... it keeps trying to talk to me and it seems to be pretty solid in reading hands...

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me dude, dont EVER ignore that voice. Its a freaking genius. I really mean that.