Aces suck - line check please

[ama0330]

Both villains are unremarkable but are over 30 vpip, cant give you exact stats as I have not been at the table for long.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($24.25)
Button ($14.25)
SB ($47.75)
Hero ($25.35)
UTG ($30.90)
MP ($27.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $0.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) calls $0.40, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO calls $1.75, SB calls $1.75.

Flop: ($6.75) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, CO calls $6, SB calls $6.

Turn: ($24.75) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks with the intention of folding.

[matrix]

raise more preflop - I make it about $4 to go here not $2.25

pot flop.

as played check/fold turn and swear loudly at the poker gods. Man that turn card sucks.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
raise more preflop - I make it about $4 to go here not $2.25

pot flop.

as played check/fold turn and swear loudly at the poker gods. Man that turn card sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

EDIT this is nl25...

[Acein8ter]

[ QUOTE ]
]

Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

EDIT this is nl25...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also raise a bit more PF, this is where you have to think a bit IMO.

You want to go heads-up w/AA instead of playing with 2,3,4 others because the more players that 'see' the flop, the more chances someone hits 2 pair, a set, trips, str8, etc...

[Kramer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise more preflop - I make it about $4 to go here not $2.25

pot flop.

as played check/fold turn and swear loudly at the poker gods. Man that turn card sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

EDIT this is nl25...

[/ QUOTE ]
PF I think is OK.
It sucks that you are not HU on that flop.
On the TURN I'll check behind.
Lots of junk that he minraised made 2 pair or set ..etc

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise more preflop - I make it about $4 to go here not $2.25

pot flop.

as played check/fold turn and swear loudly at the poker gods. Man that turn card sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

EDIT this is nl25...

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah - I know you potted OTT - but there was a raise and a call in front of you already.

You don't wanna play this pot 3way with a big pair - you'd much rather it went HU.

It's 25NL - one of these monkeys *will* call most likely and when you've got the nuts you want them to call big and make a monster mistake. - If you make the preflop bet bigger you can usually open push the flop and get lots of chips in the middle with the best hand and still get called.

You gotta fold this turn as the flush hit - and any naked T or 5 makes a str8. (such a horrible turn card) if someone is calling a big bet preflop - and then it's HU on the flop then it's much less likely that they have a T a 5 or made a flush and you get to stack QQ/KK/JJ here rather than make a fold you'd rather not because as played it's just way too likely that your 1 pair is now way behind one of these two donks. Also the bigger bets pre and on the flop mean you are pot stuck - here you can and should get away on the turn even tho quite often you are actually folding he best hand on this turn (horrible card that it is)

If the early bets are bigger then you can pay off a monkey who called $4 pre and a pot sized flop bet(or better a push) with his any two s00ted /images/graemlins/heart.gif's and make the sklansky bux (which is what you're really after anyway)

Edit: I think making it $2.25 here which you did (i.e. potting it) is OK and not a bad play - just that a bigger raise is much better in these spots.

[Sean Fraley]

[ QUOTE ]
Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) It makes sure that smaller PPs aren't calling with proper set odds.

2) Big pairs play better HU.

3) You have AA. Why would you not want to get money in the pot preflop when your equity is best?

[boycalledroy]

Just raise to 5 preflop, you get it heads up, win a small/med pot instead of burning cash!

1 Raisor I reraise to 4x raise, raisor+caller I reraise to about 8x raise if i wanna play hardball, raisor+reraisor i push allins and pray somebody has KK/QQ/JJ/AK/AQ.

[Kramer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) It makes sure that smaller PPs aren't calling with proper set odds.

2) Big pairs play better HU.

3) You have AA. Why would you not want to get money in the pot preflop when your equity is best?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with the 2$ raise they don't have the odds to call for set value.
I would make it 2.5 PF and play from there and I don't agree with raising 4-5 and hoping somebody has KK or QQ and goes all in

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) It makes sure that smaller PPs aren't calling with proper set odds.

2) Big pairs play better HU.

3) You have AA. Why would you not want to get money in the pot preflop when your equity is best?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with the 2$ raise they don't have the odds to call for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they do have odds to call for set value after Hero makes it $2.25 to go - especially SB once CO flat calls.

[ QUOTE ]

I would make it 2.5 PF and play from there and I don't agree with raising 4-5 and hoping somebody has KK or QQ and goes all in

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not about "hoping someone goes all-in with QQ/KK" it's about getting the maximum value you can and getting worse hands (and every hand here is worse) to make as big a mistake as possible (their mistakes - your mistakes = your profit)

raising to $2.5 doesn't make it wrong to call for set value (again especially for SB if CO calls cos then he's calling $2 with effective stacks of ~$23 with the pot already bloated to $5 before he acts if the CO calls) - raising to $4 DOES make it wrong to call for set value.

[Kramer]

I didn't see SBs stack. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
If CO calls 2.5 , SB has to call 2.5 for a pot of 7.5 .
For SB 2.5 is about 5% of his stack.So I should be thinking about the 5-10 rule here ?

But if everybody has 100BBs , for SB would be a mistake to make the call ?(2.5 wold be 10% of his stack )
Did I get this wrong or not ? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS: I wasn't talking about you when I said about "hoping for QQ/KK .."

[Thremp]

Std.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't see SBs stack. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
If CO calls 2.5 , SB has to call 2.5 for a pot of 7.5 .
For SB 2.5 is about 5% of his stack.So I should be thinking about the 5-10 rule here ?

But if everybody has 100BBs , for SB would be a mistake to make the call ?(2.5 wold be 10% of his stack )
Did I get this wrong or not ? /images/graemlins/grin.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

effective stacks are 100BB for everyone.

it's a call because if Hero makes it 2.5 to play - after already putting in .50c each both CO and SB have to only call a further $2 - they need to make ~$20 if they flop a set to make money - when CO calls there is now $3.5 in the pot already - so he needs to net a further $16.5 - implied odds say there is ~$23 left in Heros stack he could get if he hits (and Hero probably has AA/KK) so he can call and probably get enough of Heros stack if he makes the set to make the call a goot one.

SB then has to call $2 with $5.50 in the pot already - he only needs to make another $14 to make the call good for set value - and he has bigger implie odds cos there are now TWO stacks of ~$23 available for implied odds - if he flops a set and gets a bet of another $7 (which will be a PSB if he calls preflop) from both villains - he's already made money if his hand holds up (and it's a set it usually will) anything on top of that for SB is bonus profits...

Raise it $4 preflop and everything changes...

[dirtysanchez]

matrix is correcto, i may not always make it 4 but id make it at least $3.5, other than the reasons he mentioned, another good reason is b/c someone will call it

[Kramer]

Thanks for the reply matrix! /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Sorry for the highjack ama /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
matrix is correcto

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah ... for as long as it last, having matrix among us at uNL really is a treat /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[clownslayer2]

id say you played this hand well.

[clownslayer2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise more preflop - I make it about $4 to go here not $2.25

pot flop.

as played check/fold turn and swear loudly at the poker gods. Man that turn card sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why such a huge re-raise preflop? $2 is about pot sized I think?

EDIT this is nl25...

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.......you did fine pre flop here. I thought 4 dollars was a crazy re raise. 10X original bet is just "i have a monster, i dont want to get any money from it" u did fine.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought 4 dollars was a crazy re raise. 10X original bet is just "i have a monster, i dont want to get any money from it"

[/ QUOTE ]

O RLY??

Party Poker 25NL
Stack sizes:
UTG+1: $31.35
Hero: $24.65

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $1</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $2.25</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $10</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $17.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero calls all-in $14.65</font>, UTG+1 calls.

UTG+1 shows Kc Tc

again - OP's play is OK - I'm just saying that I think a bigger preflop raise is much better than a pot raise here.

Once you are in a situation where the pot is opened - and another villain flat calls (or better re-raises) BET BIG WITH ROCKETS! - you will almost always get at least one caller IME. and even if you don't winning the preflop raises+blinds with zero risk isn't a bad thing.

Any kind of re-raise announces "I have a big hand" - so make it a big one - cos the donks still don't realise this often and will call - take advantage.

[dirtysanchez]

matrix i had your back till i you started posting part HHs. sigh /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ama0330]

Thanks everyone, think I just got raped here. Spoken to some IM buddies who like it to and fwiw raising a little bigger preflop was okay too.

Meh, I hate aces /images/graemlins/frown.gif