$50NL Villain makes my head explode

[DWarrior]

Original Raiser is 16/11 2p2, raises more than 11% in CO.
Caller is 43/16/4.4 donk

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $76.35
UTG+1: $36.60
CO: $48.50
Button: $69.85
Hero: $50
BB: $74.80

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $2</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $8.5</font>

Squeezing is fun.

2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $22</font>

WTF is this? I understand limp/re-raise...but cold-call small 4-bet, is there a secret donk forum where they think of new ways to annoy us?

[dirtysanchez]

this is some moran who decided he doesnt have to slowplay his big pair anymore like 173% of the time

[skillzilla]

ive done this with J7s while being on monkey tilt so it isnt a high pair 100% of the time but i think a fold is in order here

I see that same play on 25NL too, loving it with my connectors and small pockets when they shove chips in on flop when i have 2pair set or something. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[DWarrior]

[ QUOTE ]
I see that same play on 25NL too, loving it with my connectors and small pockets when they shove chips in on flop when i have 2pair set or something. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The only problem is, you don't have the odds to call and spike your set, so this is a fold.


I'm a huge donkey though, I thought this was some crap like AJ or a mid PP trying to see if it's good, so I pushed. Ran into KK, failed to suck out.

Another lesson from this is to the guys who never 4 or 5-bet because "this gives my AA/KK away". Of course, but the donks call anyway. I'm repping AA here as blatant as it can get, and he still calls saying "your AA is good".

[munkey]

Anyone that limp rrz or calls PFR and reraises I automatically assign AK/KK+ unless I've seen otherwise so fold obv to 4bet.

I wouldn't squeeze with a loose caller that's range isn't speculative hands that he'll fold , also we lose the set value of 99 by 3betting. IMHO monies from calling with 99 vs donk OOP &gt;&gt; that from 3betting TAGs.

[Gelford]

Munkey, I slightly disagree with you (not on the assigning villian AK, QQ+ after the four bet but your reasoning about not squezzing)


What our hero is trying to do is to is to push out nitty villian in order to isolate donk expecting a call from donk. 99 is crushing donks range and you basically do not need to play for set value with a hand like that.


Only debatable thing is whether or not nitty villian is too tight to squezze or not, but there is a read, that he opens wider in late positioner, so no problems there I guess.

[corsakh]

Ok, from the look of things the button is an over aggressive type of fish. 4.4AF is pretty hard to maintain at this VPIP. I call unless I had been overaggressive myself the last few orbits.

[DWarrior]

Nit steals 22%, so I figured he's at least 15% raising in CO, and the donk has crap, so their ranges are obviously squeezable.

I do think the 99 hand is the perfect hand that's bad for squeezing. With a weaker holding, it's a bluff, with a hand like JJ or even TT, I think Gelford's reasoning is more relevant. I think JJ is too strong to play for set value alone here.

[dirtysanchez]

[ QUOTE ]
Nit steals 22%, so I figured he's at least 15% raising in CO, and the donk has crap, so their ranges are obviously squeezable.

I do think the 99 hand is the perfect hand that's bad for squeezing. With a weaker holding, it's a bluff, with a hand like JJ or even TT, I think Gelford's reasoning is more relevant. I think JJ is too strong to play for set value alone here.

[/ QUOTE ]

well its better to squeeze when the cold-caller is a TAG or at least someone who isnt usually capable of cold-calling with a monster. its not just about them calling wide, its also about being able to narrow their coldcall range to hands that will fold to the squeeze.

edit: its obv ok here b/c you are doing it for value as much as for FE, but this is a bad spot for a light squeeze vs this type of coldcaller

[Gelford]

Depends on donk, but with a vpip of 43 I find 99 quite acceptable .. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Phytopath]

I just call the 99, spike a 9 and pile up the chips.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
Caller is 43/16/4.4 donk

[/ QUOTE ]

er don't squeeze LAGdonks. ever.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm repping AA here as blatant as it can get, and he still calls saying "your AA is good".

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying he should fold KK preflop??? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

games at uNL aren't that crazy aggro (yet) - simple fold to the 4bet.

[DWarrior]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm repping AA here as blatant as it can get, and he still calls saying "your AA is good".

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying he should fold KK preflop??? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

games at uNL aren't that crazy aggro (yet) - simple fold to the 4bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying, I know I definitely heard a bunch of people say "I never 4-bet because they instantly put me on AA/KK", because people still won't fold KK here pf, so just 4-bet away.

[dirtysanchez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm repping AA here as blatant as it can get, and he still calls saying "your AA is good".

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying he should fold KK preflop??? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

games at uNL aren't that crazy aggro (yet) - simple fold to the 4bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying, I know I definitely heard a bunch of people say "I never 4-bet because they instantly put me on AA/KK", because people still won't fold KK here pf, so just 4-bet away.

[/ QUOTE ]

this strategy would be better with some kind of spyware that allowed you to see villains cards /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying, I know I definitely heard a bunch of people say "I never 4-bet because they instantly put me on AA/KK", because people still won't fold KK here pf, so just 4-bet away.

[/ QUOTE ]
There aren't a lot of people that can say they folded AA/KK for 1 buy in preflop. It gets more interesting with JJ/QQ because those hands do get folded regularily to 4-bets.


Also I learned the hard way that this is usually QQ+ or some type of donkishly played small pair/suited connector. The problem is that especially against donks its more often QQ+ than air. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
The better I think my opponents are, the more I assign there range in this spot to air. This is only going so far because at a certain skill lvl villain is going to think one step ahead and realize your likely to squeeze. At this point anything can appear in his range, these are the scary ones...


Edit; If you meet the last type of guys at these stakes tell them to get the [censored] off and move up there MORE than ready. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Triggerle]

FWIW (not much) when I had KK in this situation and called/pushed it was AA every single time. (This happend around six times in the 50k hands I have played so far.) The other times I folded.