VIDEO: NL25 6max

[jonyy6788]

Watch me play like a nit, except for one hand where I play like I have downs syndrome. Also, I accidentally fold a set.

38min. video, 35MB

Link (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KBZKSUAB)

[jose_marti]

I'm pretty excited ..

[SnappyJoe]

You have commentary on this? What program did you use and what format did you encode it to?

I'm thinking of making my own video, so if you could help me out I would greatly appreciate it.

[Gelford]

First hand in the video and you butcher it imho .... one fish limper 88 in the small blind.

88 is crushing their ranges, so unless we are talking hyperaggro fish and not stationesque fishes, this is an easy raise followed by a cbet ... if you get called, they usually will try to extract with 0.25$ bets on turn and river.

The set you folded, what was your plan there ??? (I like the Tasmanian Devil that PA hud shows you, after which you speculate if he has aces and go ... errrm ??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif )



I am on my way to bed, will watch the rest tomorrow /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Edit 2:
I also downloaded they rest of your video's the other day, but haven't have time to watch them, will watch them soon

[spacetime]

I have you at 17/15/3.3, thought you might be a 2p2er. My notes are:

is capable of making a move if he thinks
you are bluffing.

ex. lowball flop, i bet, he raised my turn bet with air

[Supwithbates]

I really don't like your K3 move. You have a worthless hand that could get you into a lot of trouble if it hits, you're OOP in a family pot where you're bound to get called by someone.

I find your reaction to the minbet interesting. I really don't like that raise but it seems like he called it with less than a king anyways so who knows. Buddylist that man, and take him to valuetown again and again... just sit to his left next time.

In the future, never ever pull a move in a pot he's still involved in. This kid is going to stack off very weak, I'd be trying to value bet him to death even in marginal situations (ie the 88 hand I'd 3bet the flop with your read on this donk because he's likely to stack off with A6).

[corsakh]

Raise overpair to a minraise on a rag flop, you want to isolate at worst. Its almost always A6 or a draw anyway.

I am raising 87s from CO all day. Thats a hand you would love to play in position. A7o I dont.

Did you seriously contemplate "pot control" on a dry A high board with a flopped set?

And then folded AK on sb to MP raise?

Preemptively push overs from OOP into a 20BB shortstack.

Raise with 99.

Raise KT on the button.

Complete with 87s.

Did you fold AJ on the button to a minraise? Or was it a proper raise, I could not see.

Dont try to steal a family pot with K3o at 25nl /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'd say it works 1/10 times /images/graemlins/smile.gif And dont try to cbet with this hand OOP if you got caught stealing, especially on a rag flop like this - I doubt he believes that you hit /images/graemlins/smile.gif

3betting AJ is a pretty bad idea. You dont want to 3bet with a hand that is easily dominated, pick suited connectors or middle pairs for this.

Why are you folding J9s to a limp.

Folding a middle pair to a minreraise on the flop? What hand would he want to minraise on a drawy flop like this OOP? Even if you know he hit a King you have great odds to call.

I definitely do not recommend 4betting with JJ from OOP. Push or call or whatever depending on his stats, just dont 4bet.

Limping with KQ is gross.

Raise pocket pairs.

Dont limp with J9s on the button, its gross. Call a raise from the blinds.

[VPIP100]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise overpair to a minraise on a rag flop, you want to isolate at worst. Its almost always A6 or a draw anyway.

I am raising 87s from CO all day. Thats a hand you would love to play in position. A7o I dont.

Did you seriously contemplate "pot control" on a dry A high board with a flopped set?

And then folded AK on sb to MP raise?

Preemptively push overs from OOP into a 20BB shortstack.

Raise with 99.

Raise KT on the button.

Complete with 87s.

Did you fold AJ on the button to a minraise? Or was it a proper raise, I could not see.

Dont try to steal a family pot with K3o at 25nl /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'd say it works 1/10 times /images/graemlins/smile.gif And dont try to cbet with this hand OOP if you got caught stealing, especially on a rag flop like this - I doubt he believes that you hit /images/graemlins/smile.gif

3betting AJ is a pretty bad idea. You dont want to 3bet with a hand that is easily dominated, pick suited connectors or middle pairs for this.

Why are you folding J9s to a limp.

Folding a middle pair to a minreraise on the flop? What hand would he want to minraise on a drawy flop like this OOP? Even if you know he hit a King you have great odds to call.

I definitely do not recommend 4betting with JJ from OOP. Push or call or whatever depending on his stats, just dont 4bet.

Limping with KQ is gross.

Raise pocket pairs.

Dont limp with J9s on the button, its gross. Call a raise from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like both?

Rest I agree.

[jonyy6788]

I told you guys this was me playing like a nit....I was limping a lot of PPs b/c of small stacks and calling stations. You guys do realize it's not always right to play my 18/16 game at NL25????? Guess what, nobody is paying attention is these games.


stealing for $2.25 in family pot is VERY profitable at NL25, especially when you are playing like a nit.

I'm not gonna call a 3bet w/ JJ OOP against a 83/45, you guys couldn't see that those were his stats.

On the set, I was tryin to figure out if a shove was profitable or if it was an overbet.

I shouldn't need to "hit" when I'm raising OOP to $2.25...this reps JJ+.

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
You have commentary on this? What program did you use and what format did you encode it to?

I'm thinking of making my own video, so if you could help me out I would greatly appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

30-day trial of Camtasia (http://www.techsmith.com/camtasia.asp)

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
I have you at 17/15/3.3, thought you might be a 2p2er. My notes are:

is capable of making a move if he thinks
you are bluffing.

ex. lowball flop, i bet, he raised my turn bet with air

[/ QUOTE ]

hopefully I wasn't playing you last night and you raised 35s from the CO and I managed to get a stack in there with A high.

[jonyy6788]

Also, I will be making another video later today

[pena]

This's maybe a dull question, but
how can you put those UB-windows so no one of them are top of the other? I can't resize them. It'd be much easier to multitable if tables was tiled.

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
This's maybe a dull question, but
how can you put those UB-windows so no one of them are top of the other? I can't resize them. It'd be much easier to multitable if tables was tiled.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have a monitor that has enough resolution to support 4 full tables of UB (they aren't resized)

[ybother]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This's maybe a dull question, but
how can you put those UB-windows so no one of them are top of the other? I can't resize them. It'd be much easier to multitable if tables was tiled.

[/ QUOTE ]

what resolution is it on to have four ub tables to show?

havent watched it yet, but each time I see you on ub I want to ask if I need to smile for the camera, but I dont for obvious reasons

i have a monitor that has enough resolution to support 4 full tables of UB (they aren't resized)

[/ QUOTE ]

[thac]

I think you need 1600x1200 to get the tables to show with no overlap.

[pena]

OK, thanks. My laptop is far from that (1280 x 800). Fortunately PS has resizeable windows.

[ama0330]

"The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable."

Booooo

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you need 1600x1200 to get the tables to show with no overlap.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes that's correct...file is unavailable for me right now too, give it a little while it should work.

I think the thing I was tryin to get across in this video was that you don't have to play the same game every time you hit the tables. Yesterday I was like 12/8, day before 15/12, day before that prolly 17/14. Your mood and especially table conditions (ie. shortstacks, stations, nits) should be a factor in how you are playing. Playing 17/14 at most of these tables would have been a huge strain on my mind and I didn't feel like thinking too much during this session b/c honestly if I'm not playing at least my B game postflop I'm gonna get murdered.

I've been discussing this with thac quite a bit lately on the ol' AIM and we have both been doing very well in the past few days playing nit/TAG. Image only matters against regulars and people that pay attention. Can anybody give the number of people at these NL25 tables that are regs/paying attention???? I'll be back lata for further discussion of this.

[ybother]

I guess the only image that does come across is frequent pf aggresssion. Without a hud most of the players will only a notice that rather than they getting to limp like usual they are seeing a raise often from seat x. At this level this is my favorite way to set up an image based play. Eventually someone is going to 3 bet light and now you have a pot.

For nitting it up, it such an action killer at many tables lately. I really think that with all that has been happeing in online poker, the pool of fish is smaller. Its pretty common to see a bunch of probable 2'ers or CR members in these games, so Jonyy is right in that table conditionss make your style. Some of these nitty 25nl are really good training for true LAG play common at much higher stakes.

[spacetime]

that was indeed me. i was utg btw.

do you know if gr8_white is a 2p2er? I see him there all the time.

[boycalledroy]

nl25 on AP is so tight. I bet bet bet bet and bet some more. I raise EVERY time on co/btn and slow down if I get called by BTN when I'm CO. I don't 3bet sb/bb light at all, it's pointless big pot oop v tight players. Hands don't get paid off. Cbet everything, annoy the HELL out of all the players at your table with your raising.

Try and play everything in position. Id rather have 45s in pos than AKs in the SB with AJ7 flop. Eventually EVERYBODY on your table will start playing back at you and thats when you start stacking them all. Relentless aggression, use it!

I know this goes against the TAG style suggested but I still feel it works a treat.

[Speedlimits]

jony whats ur bankroll at? main limits?

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
that was indeed me. i was utg btw.

do you know if gr8_white is a 2p2er? I see him there all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i assume he is, i've never really clashed with him

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
nl25 on AP is so tight. I bet bet bet bet and bet some more. I raise EVERY time on co/btn and slow down if I get called by BTN when I'm CO. I don't 3bet sb/bb light at all, it's pointless big pot oop v tight players. Hands don't get paid off. Cbet everything, annoy the HELL out of all the players at your table with your raising.

Try and play everything in position. Id rather have 45s in pos than AKs in the SB with AJ7 flop. Eventually EVERYBODY on your table will start playing back at you and thats when you start stacking them all. Relentless aggression, use it!

I know this goes against the TAG style suggested but I still feel it works a treat.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, you need to table select

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
jony whats ur bankroll at? main limits?

[/ QUOTE ]

about $750, I just cashed out $550

I'll be playing NL25 for 10more BI's and then its off to NL50

[prodonkey]

Excellent fold of the set, folding KTo on button.. the JTo hand BET!!!! I keep screaming at the monitor bet bet bet.. or raise raise.

What were u taking so long with the set for? I hope you weren't considering calling and letting the guy with the flush draw cling along for another 5 bucks.. all in!

[corsakh]

It does not matter if you game was 30/20 or 12/8 both can be profitable at this tables. My concern is the video was so weak tight and your thinking was so out of line, and looking at your comments still is, I could not believe I am watching someone with a 1000+ posts on 2+2.

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
It does not matter if you game was 30/20 or 12/8 both can be profitable at this tables. My concern is the video was so weak tight and your thinking was so out of line, and looking at your comments still is, I could not believe I am watching someone with a 1000+ posts on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL ... I must watch this thing /images/graemlins/grin.gif (haven't had time to watch more than 2 minutes yet)

[funinbed]

Great Video!
Watching you double up the short stack was like watching a video of myself.

[fees]

How do you MAKE videos? Just out of curiosity if I wanted to put one together how would I go about doing it?

[funinbed]

And I think you may be a little too passive. Are Cbets not profitable at UB? I think limping pairs and the like may help reduce tilt but a raise+cbet is more profitable long term.

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you MAKE videos? Just out of curiosity if I wanted to put one together how would I go about doing it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Download Camtasia from the link I provided earlier....get a microphone and do it. Camtasia is pretty self-explanatory.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont limp with J9s on the button, its gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

It goes without saying that you find Sklansky and Miller's advice potentially gross, yes?

(I would be the last to say that we should slavishly accept something just because a 2+2 author said so, but to convince me they're wrong you'd better bring a better argument than "it's gross.")

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
And I think you may be a little too passive. Are Cbets not profitable at UB? I think limping pairs and the like may help reduce tilt but a raise+cbet is more profitable long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not my normal game......I've got another video on the way if the [censored] thing will ever upload.

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont limp with J9s on the button, its gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

It goes without saying that you find Sklansky and Miller's advice potentially gross, yes?

(I would be the last to say that we should slavishly accept something just because a 2+2 author said so, but to convince me they're wrong you'd better bring a better argument than "it's gross.")

[/ QUOTE ]

If there were fishy/stationy limpers in the hand there is NOTHING wrong with limping J9s

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont limp with J9s on the button, its gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

It goes without saying that you find Sklansky and Miller's advice potentially gross, yes?

(I would be the last to say that we should slavishly accept something just because a 2+2 author said so, but to convince me they're wrong you'd better bring a better argument than "it's gross.")

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct sir, some of Sklansky's advice is gross because of his theoretical-limit background. I have not finished NTLP yet and can not comment on his reasonings. But the key to NL is position and aggression. With J9s on the button we can have both and its a great hand to play.

[Gelford]

You have KQ in BB ... it is folded to sb who limps and you check because he is shortstacked ?? (around 20BB)

Btw. I could swear it looks like you are about to call on the 555 hand, that you timed out .... where you ?

[Gelford]

Next question:

You hold AJo on the BTN and it is folded to TiltedJacks (47/21) at the CO who pots it.

You look at his stats and conclude that you are way ahead of his range, but you do not want to 3-bet him because the BB is shortstacked (20 BB's)

An orbit previously you have btw complained that this table (table 4) has become very nitty.


Please elaborate

[Gelford]

Table 1, where you normally have been checking everything out of the BB (like 88), you suddenly wake up in a family pot (almost everybody limps) and try a pf steal SB with K3o, again I'd love if you elaborate (especially as you have earlier complained that the player on your left never folds)

[Gelford]

Back to table 4, you are on the button holding AJo again, The seat to your right has just been filled a few hands ago with a unknown short player (again we are talking 20 BB)

Folded to him in the CO and he pots it ... you say that if he wasn't short, you would threebet him, but not when he is short. I would love if you once again would elaborate (no offence jonyy, I am not after you, you posted a video and I just don't get some of the hands /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Some of these hands have been questioned before, but I kind of Grunching here.

[Gelford]

OK ... I'm 25 minutes in to the video, but have to stop now .... But here is a recap.

Let us ignore the K3o pf steal from the SB, it has been mentionrf, you consider it +EV and I like previous poster consider it spewing. Peace /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now back to business, apart from the K3o hand that leaves us with the hands, where you fold every time with the explanation that somebody is short. I do not get it, so I appreciate if you would be so kind as to explain your view on having shortstacks at the table and why that make you lean towards folding in those three hands /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
That is correct sir, some of Sklansky's advice is gross because of his theoretical-limit background.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all the book's by both Miller and Sklansky, and they both have a perfectly good grounding to be able to adapt to different betting structures of hold 'em. If their advice is bad, it isn't because they aren't aware of the differences. In fact, in this situation that "explanation" is extra-ignorant because they explicitly say that in limit you should virtually NEVER open-limp J9s, but in NL you might have reasons to do so.

[ QUOTE ]
I have not finished NTLP yet and can not comment on his reasonings. But the key to NL is position and aggression. With J9s on the button we can have both and its a great hand to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

The position doesn't change regardless of how you play the hand. The dealer doesn't say, "I'm sorry, you played that too passively preflop, so I'm going to award the button to the player to your right."

Aggression is certainly an important weapon in NLHE, but it's the responsibility of the aggressor is to know how to wield it. The money doesn't just automatically go to whomever is most aggressive at the table. So when you raise J9s first-in from the button (as S&M acknowledge you may want to do at times), it's important to know why you're doing so.

To take down the blinds? With short effective stacks, that would be a fine reason. With deep effective stacks, there isn't much in the pot to win compared to what you hope to win in your opponents' stacks.

To set up a CB? Against opponents who routinely call PFRs and fold to CBs, that's much better. But honestly, I'm seeing fewer and fewer such opponents at NL25, so I can only imagine how it is in bigger games. Of course you can adjust with two-barrel bluffs, etc. but you're going to be staking a lot of money on a weak hand if you do this continuously. So whereas setting up a CB may be a fine plan, it may also have costs.

Now, the rationale presented in the book, implied odds, doesn't always hold. The authors suggest that you may find people attacking your limps, so you may want to raise a small amount instead. Your stack size might be such that the implied odds aren't there regardless. Or they might be so big that you're not sacrificing any IO, and the raise just serves to make it more likely you'll take a stack if you hit. But just avoiding a play because "it looks weak" -- or worse, because the macho crowd at 2+2 called it "gross" with no further explanation offered -- is not a good way to approach poker.

That said, I'm generally raising J9s OTB because taking down the blinds is preferable to getting raised and having a tough decision. It also provides some balance, and if I'm not going to get action from my good hands I may as well help myself to a lot of blinds.

But I suck at poker so take it with a grain of salt. You're far better off trusting Sklansky and Miller than me.

[Gelford]

There are very few that agree with Sklansky and Millers recommendation of limping here on 2+2 (at least in the 6max community). I haven't seen the hand in question, if it is a family pot with lots of limpers or against callingstations that you can shove river against or similar, then it might be ok, but in general limping is frowned upon in the 2+2 6max community at least above uNL. There have been long threads debating it when the book came out, but a recent example could be the aejones well post that is started today. Here you will se aejones a 1000NL regular give never limp advice.

[AKQJ10]

I recall those threads when the book came out, and I have no reason to doubt your assertion that it's the consensus of 2+2. There's still a big difference between presenting a well reasoned argument and saying not to do something just because it's consensus.

[corsakh]

AKJ, I totally repect you as a player and what you say, but really there is no need to complicate this situation /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You have a school of 50VPIP OOP limped fish with full effective stacks on one hand and a big suited connector on the button on the the other hand. Situation can go four ways:

1) 10% chance: They fold. You take the blinds.
2) 40% chance: A blind calls. All call. You play a monster family pot in position against a bunch of fully stacked fish. Dream scenario for a big suited connector.
3) 40 chance: Blinds fold, one of the limpers calls. Chances are you probably 50-50. You risk a cbet.
4) 10% chance: Someone raises. Depending on the stacks you either call for implied odds or loose 6BB.

Numbers are specualtive, but reflect the general picture at these tables. I don't see how this can be ev-, unless you have a maniac at the table. On top of that, you are getting on your opponents nerves that pays you off later.

This is why I like suited connectors. The hand is so versitile it can play in any situation as long as you have implied odds and position.

ps Nothing wrong with limping with SC's on the button in FR, I am pretty sure this is what Sklansky is relating to in his book. Its may also be fine limping in wwith this hand from CO if you fear that the button will call a raise. And its certainly all right from MP.

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
There's still a big difference between presenting a well reasoned argument and saying not to do something just because it's consensus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I have no intention of going thru the argumentation of those threads etc and consensus is just the practice of well known players, so it doesn't have to say much as such (in general)

So yeah .... poker is poker and everybody for him self, if it aint broken don't fix it.