25nl You gonna fold sally? You gonna fold? Are ya?

[ama0330]

Villain is 23/0 but over a small sample. Thus no AF readings.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($25.95)
SB ($29.25)
BB ($11.95)
UTG ($22.72)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2</font>, BB calls $2.

Turn: ($6.10) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4.5</font>....

[matrix]

whats the plan if you get called and

a) river bricks
b) you spike TP

[boycalledroy]

What do you read this guy as having? If he is a calling station, bluffing is a stupid game, get a hand show it down. Don't spew chips.

Actually saying that, I'd have checked the flop and bet the turn. It confuses players like this into folding a lot!

[barryc83]

Meh. Thats a decent card to 2 barrel but I'd rather it be an A/K/Q. I would just let it go though against an unknown. I think he looks you up with a small pp here a good bit, maybe even a donk with A6. If he calls the turn, no matter what hits the river I'm checking.

[Genz]

With no reads over a small sample size, it's quite impossible to say if this is a good play or not. If he's a calling station, it's not, obv. The board is very dry so if he caught anything here, he probably won't believe you, that you've hit. I don't know if you can convince him that you have just hit a J and beat his split 2s. Because villain is fairly tight, I put him on some PP here and think that he will probably call down. So I check behind and fold the river if he bets.

[ama0330]

I thought I was behind but I thought I could get him to lay down overcards and MAYBE mid pairs. FWIW he thought a loooong time before calling the flop, and that had some part in my decision to fire again. Is this a leak?

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought I was behind but I thought I could get him to lay down overcards and MAYBE mid pairs. FWIW he thought a loooong time before calling the flop, and that had some part in my decision to fire again. Is this a leak?

[/ QUOTE ]

naaah i like this. the only thing though is i find that micro stakes players will float the flop if the pot/bet relation is cheap (ie 3 players in 50nl 1.40$ after rake, u pot they call)...

a 2nd barrel pot bet makes them toss it. but in this case i think villain called pre with a weak ass hand cuz it was 50 cents to call. then he hit a pair on the flop, so he floated the flop. the turn card is a GREAT scare card, he only calls i feel with a OESD, at which case he almost always checks the river when he hits cuz he figures u'll bet again then BAM u check behind and shatter his dreams.

gold.

[barryc83]

Personally, I dont 2 barrel unknowns bc 95% of the time theyre stations. I'm always amazed when I have AA here and I get some guy's stack who calls me all the way down with 88. I'd rather 2 barrel regs who I know will lay down a hand like 88.

[derosnec]

no A, no K, no fold

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought I was behind but I thought I could get him to lay down overcards and MAYBE mid pairs. FWIW he thought a loooong time before calling the flop, and that had some part in my decision to fire again. Is this a leak?

[/ QUOTE ]


YES!!!!

but not a big one - if you're read is that he's weak then fire away.

The leak is thinking you can make TightPassive types fold often enough to make it profitable imo.

they play so few hands when they do finally connect with a flop somehow they have a hard time folding unless the bets are huge.

at these limits players rarely fold - unless they're W/T and then you can usually get them to fold MP or worse by going all-in.

tbh I probably fire again vs this guy if he's taking the best part of three weeks to call the flop but I'd fire 5.50 not 4.50 and I'd shutdown if called again.

Once in a while it's worth poking people with sticks and seeing what they do just don't do it very often and thetimes you do pull a move it helps to have 4+outs to fall back on /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
whats the plan if you get called and

a) river bricks

check behind

b) you spike TP

value bet

[/ QUOTE ]

[ama0330]

Thanks all for your responses. Unfortunately villain obviously caught a Jack because he TURBO raised me all in. Like it was almost scary how fast he pushed on me, it was ridiculous. So obv fold. But I was wondering, had the turn been any card OTHER than his 6 outs, would this have been EV. Like say he's holding AJ and the turn comes K, and I bet like I did, does he lay it down? Thats why I posted this, sort of trying to figure out which board texture makes this a decent play.

[matrix]

meh - he might have been slowplaying a set or an overpair and thought YOU had caught the Jack

as far as double barrelling goes - don't do it at all unless you've seen villain fold the turn to a bet before now.

and normally pick dry boards, and make big scary bets when scary cards come.

You can bluff at a 3flush turn, or maybe a 4straight turn/river and expect folds often - or an Ace or a King.

uNL villains aren't sophisticated to think you might have spiked a set if a brick hits and your bets to date have "made sense" - they usually miss a straight hitting the board - so don't bluff those cards.

They'll rarely believe you have an overpair either if you pot pot a rag board quickly - and try to only double barrel when you have outs of some kind - at least a gutshot - to fall back on if called. They won't save you often but the times you spike a 4 outter and stack AA your image just went supernova and you can value bet relentlessly afterwards...