Christian History Questions

[Chris Daddy Cool]

I read somewhere that the divinity of Jesus was not actually decided yet until it was voted several centuries later by a council of some sort. If I am wrong, please correct me.

If this is so, what were the people calling themselves "Christians" before this decision believing in? Did they believe that he was the son of God sent down to save humanity? Did they believe that they must believe in him in order to be saved? As is my understanding, all of this was not decided until later.

From what I also understand, the first Christians were basically still Jewish, but with a new philosophy/outlook/view on certain things advocated by Jesus. Am I wrong?

[Nielsio]

http://jesusneverexisted.com/

Everything you need to know.

[purnell]

[ QUOTE ]
I read somewhere that the divinity of Jesus was not actually decided yet until it was voted several centuries later by a council of some sort. If I am wrong, please correct me.

If this is so, what were the people calling themselves "Christians" before this decision believing in? Did they believe that he was the son of God sent down to save humanity? Did they believe that they must believe in him in order to be saved? As is my understanding, all of this was not decided until later.

From what I also understand, the first Christians were basically still Jewish, but with a new philosophy/outlook/view on certain things advocated by Jesus. Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
http://jesusneverexisted.com/

Everything you need to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

That site looks to be about as reliable as asking Jerry Falwell for evidence for evolution.

The fact that they expect there to be simialr evidence supporting the existance of Jesus that there is for Julius Caesar is completely retarded. One was a poor carpenter from BFE, the other was the ruler of the known world.

[BrickTamlin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://jesusneverexisted.com/

Everything you need to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

That site looks to be about as reliable as asking Jerry Falwell for evidence for evolution.

The fact that they expect there to be simialr evidence supporting the existance of Jesus that there is for Julius Caesar is completely retarded. One was a poor carpenter from BFE, the other was the ruler of the known world.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a very good point.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://jesusneverexisted.com/

Everything you need to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

That site looks to be about as reliable as asking Jerry Falwell for evidence for evolution.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actual thinking is hard, isn't it?

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that they expect there to be simialr evidence supporting the existance of Jesus that there is for Julius Caesar is completely retarded. One was a poor carpenter from BFE, the other was the ruler of the known world.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.virtualgifts4u.com/halloween/strawman.jpg

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
I read somewhere that the divinity of Jesus was not actually decided yet until it was voted several centuries later by a council of some sort. If I am wrong, please correct me.


[/ QUOTE ]
I also read this in Dan Brown's fictional book, "The Divinci Code."

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
http://jesusneverexisted.com/

Everything you need to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

If its on the internet, it MUST be true!!!!

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I read somewhere that the divinity of Jesus was not actually decided yet until it was voted several centuries later by a council of some sort. If I am wrong, please correct me.


[/ QUOTE ]
I also read this in Dan Brown's fictional book, "The Divinci Code."

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it also in The Divinci Code, but I have also read it in various other sources too.

[LadyWrestler]

Hi.

Q: "I read somewhere that the divinity of Jesus was not actually decided yet until it was voted several centuries later by a council of some sort. If I am wrong, please correct me." A: Some people may have decided to believe it then, and some obviously believed it while Jesus was still walking on the earth.

Q: "If this is so, what were the people calling themselves 'Christians' before this decision believing in? Did they believe that he was the son of God sent down to save humanity? Did they believe that they must believe in him in order to be saved? As is my understanding, all of this was not decided until later. A: Yes. Yes. Yes. No.

Q: "From what I also understand, the first Christians were basically still Jewish, but with a new philosophy/outlook/view on certain things advocated by Jesus. Am I wrong?" A: Some of the first (early) Christians were Jews and some were not.

Have a great day!

[Nielsio]

Do whatever you have to do to avoid thinking and investigating facts.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
http://jesusneverexisted.com/

Everything you need to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fascinating read - thanks.

[jgorham]

In the first few centuries of the modern age (til around 300) the christian cult was considered heresy and forbidden by the Roman emporers. Due to this fact there was no central dogma or united position on many of the details of Christian faith, which makes sense if you consider peasants sneaking in religion with their neighbors only. At this point most believers were in fact Jewish, although some were not.

In the third century, emporer Constantine converted to Christianity, and a larger, unified religion was born. The problem here is that there were certain elements that were not really unilaterally believed. One such issue (probably the most sticking) was whether or not Jesus could be considered divine or not. The argument rested upon the fact that Jesus, as a human, was created by God, and therefore had to be lesser. The priest Arius and his followers, Arians, believed this to be true.

The opponents to this belief were known as trinitarians. This was just one issue dividing Christianity. If you want to know more look up the donatists and the pelagians as well. Most of these conflicts were solved at the first Council of Nicea in 325. Constantine invited all 1800 bishops of the Christian church and they debated this issue (among others). Ultimately the council (read Constantine) sided with the trinitarians and Arius and his followers were excommunicated.

This did not stop people from believing what Arius preached, and Arians continued to be a thorn in the empire's side until his death, after which his successor decided Arius was right. He invited Arius back to his court, with plans on reinstating him in the church and accepting his views. Just before Arius could meet with the emporer, he mysteriously died. Socrates describes his death:

"It was then Saturday, and . . . going out of the imperial palace, attended by a crowd of Eusebian [Eusebius of Nicomedia is meant] partisans like guards, he [Arius] paraded proudly through the midst of the city, attracting the notice of all the people. As he approached the place called Constantine's Forum, where the column of porphyry is erected, a terror arising from the remorse of conscience seized Arius, and with the terror a violent relaxation of the bowels: he therefore enquired whether there was a convenient place near, and being directed to the back of Constantine's Forum, he hastened thither. Soon after a faintness came over him, and together with the evacuations his bowels protruded, followed by a copious hemorrhage, and the descent of the smaller intestines: moreover portions of his spleen and liver were brought off in the effusion of blood, so that he almost immediately died. The scene of this catastrophe still is shown at Constantinople, as I have said, behind the shambles in the colonnade: and by persons going by pointing the finger at the place, there is a perpetual remembrance preserved of this extraordinary kind of death."

Some Nicene (post council of Nicea) Christians feel this death was a miracle to stop this tainting of the faith. Personally I think it sounds more like poison. In any case the fact remains that much of the modern Christian church was determined by Constantine (and other emporers).

If you are interested in more I recommend wikipedia, because it is the greatest site ever.

[Nielsio]

Glad to supply it.

The site creates a distinct diversity in responses:
http://jesusneverexisted.com/comments.html
http://jesusneverexisted.com/comments2.html
http://jesusneverexisted.com/comments3.html

Some more related links:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
http://www.thebricktestament.com/
http://www.skepdic.com/
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/Dawkins/Work/papers.shtml

[canis582]

The first person who wrote about Jesus was the apostle paul. If Jesus was a real person who lived on earth and was born from a virgin, etc, no one ever told paul.

Also, Jesus reallllly resembles the cult of dionysis. I wonder where those gosphel writers (all of whom came after the temple was destroyed in AD 70) got their ideas.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Hell, we don't even know exactly what happened in Dallas in 1963 and we have video.