Strange hand .10/.25NLHE

[TheDespot]

Can't find Bodog formatter, so sorry for the layout.

.10/.25 NLHE
Hero ($66) is on button with J-J. UTG+1 ($25) raises to $1.20 (just got to table and I have no read), MP2 ($35) calls, Hero calls. Everyone else folds.

Flop 8-5-3 rainbow
UTG+1 moves all-in for $23.20, MP2 folds

Hero?

[matv]

I call, this looks like a player trying to gambooooool

[WarhammerIIC]

No way in hell am I trying to see this flop 3-handed when I'm on the button. I'm reraising that crap preflop.

As for the flop push, it's $23 something to win like a $3.5 pot. You probably have the best hand, but I think there are much, much better spots than this. Not re-raising preflop makes this a really tough decision.

[matv]

'WarhammerIIC':

to quote Erick Lindgren on High Stakes Poker:

"In Texas Hold'em sometimes we like to vary our
play" /images/graemlins/smile.gif

calling here isn't a bad idea at all.. though I prefer to 3-bet as well.

Also, this is a cash game, not a tournament. We don't wait for "better spots". If you think it's profitable you call, if it isn't you fold.

[WarhammerIIC]

Yeah, well, we're playing $25NL here, not $100,000NL. Without any reads, we assume our opponents don't pay attention to what we're doing.

My point is that you have no idea if it's a profitable call, because the PFR could have anything. I would prefer to find a spot where I'm more sure I'm getting my money in good. Being 50% sure I have him beat here isn't enough for me to risk my stack in a nothing pot.

[matv]

a little variation doesn't kill anyone. I don't blame him for calling here, I alternate between both plays but usually RR here.

If you're not willing to get your stack in here when you believe you have him beat 50% of the time I think you're playing the wrong game.

If you don't believe you have him beat this often I understand, but when you know you have a profitable play you HAVE to take it.

[WarhammerIIC]

[ QUOTE ]
a little variation doesn't kill anyone. I don't blame him for calling here, I alternate between both plays but usually RR here.

If you're not willing to get your stack in here when you believe you have him beat 50% of the time I think you're playing the wrong game.

If you don't believe you have him beat this often I understand, but when you know you have a profitable play you HAVE to take it.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have absolutely no way of knowing if you have the best hand here... unless there is some read on the player that I'm missing. You can't even really make an educated guess as to whether you do or not. Sure, lots of players would donk off with AK or AQ (or worse) here, but lots of players would also play QQ, KK, 88, 55, etc this way.

[TheDespot]

As for my call preflop, I do vary my play here in a spot like this. I was playing pretty aggressively to this point and wanted to switch it up a bit. Also, A K-J-6 type flop looks much less threatening to A-K when there isn't a reraise, for example, and I was pretty confident I would take down a big one here had I hit the set. This was a small price to pay for not re-raising preflop. However, the only problem arises exactly in this type of situation: when the flop comes three unders and looks non-threatening, only to face strength from others. My call definitely confounded the situation here, and I really could not put this guy on a hand. Could have had an overpair, even like A-8, straight draw, set, big cards. More input before I post the ensuing events?

[weknowhowtolive]

Its actually 23 to win a 27ish dollar pot. Any overpair in low limits does this.

[Check_The_Nuts]

I fold, but not because I'm looking for a "better spot". I think his bet is too much of an overbet for us to have to call with JJ here. I'd probably call with KK+ or QQ, and obviously sets. I dunno that seems really tight, but its a dry board.

[spacetime]

War is completely correct here. There are loads of hands that beat us that would make this play, without a read this is a clear fold (and a clear RR PF).

There is no reason to risk 20 to win 3.5, if he is making these plays hero is going to get his stack eventually.

[TheDespot]

Does anyone know where to find a Bodog hand formatter like the ones for Stars, etc.? Does one even exist?
Anyways, I'll post the result of this hand tomorrow. Any more comments appreciated.

[TheDespot]

So I decided to call this bet after much deliberation. My main reason for this was since I had no read on this particular player, I relied on my experience in this type of game and the players who play it. I was in a hand about a week or two ago where I was bullying the table much like this particular session: I was in the BB with Q-Q and it was folded to the SB. We had had a few blind confrontations before where I played very aggressively and he folded a few times and was definitely getting frustrated. He made a raise of about 4 or 5 times the BB and I repopped a healthy amount more. He called. The flop came 8-7-2 rainbow and he shoved for around $20. In this situation I instacalled because of my playing with this player for a little beforehand. He showed Qs-8s and was drawing pretty thin. Anyways, looking back on the call, I do believe it was bad, not necessarily because I'll usually be beat, which I do NOT think is true a good portion of the time, but because the pot is so small. I should really have been reasonably certain of where I stood in the hand in order to make this call of such a large overbet and I really had no idea where I was at. Villain showed Q-Q this time, and I unneccessarily lost some of my well-earned money. Like was said previously, villain will eventually dump off all his money anyways doing things like this; I should have waited for him to move on me when I had the goods. Though he myseriously sat out after this one? Hehehe.