QQ Against a nit...whats good in da hood?!?!?!!?

[EMc]

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $63.65
CO: $32.75
Button: $98.95
EMc: $51.55
BB: $24.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) EMc is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, EMc calls, BB calls.

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($6, 3 players)
EMc ??

He is a nice 8/6/.75 over decent sample. Ive played with him before.

[Gelford]

Why not 3bet pf, are you playing for set value (not that QQ fares good against his range)

I think you can check call him on the flop and I do not believe he will fire a secondbarrel on turn. The only hand that will bet on turn, that you've got beat is JJ and well ... wtf. Check call flop and give a lot of free cards ??? lol /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lousy spot, but yeah against this guy, I actually think you might be playing QQ for set value (kind of)

I would love to have him on my immediate left though, you get to play the btn twice each orbit /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dirtysanchez]

i lead the flop, people w/ ridiculous stats like these are only raising KK/AA , and if they call its JJ or maybe ATs (we are 5 handed) or a flush draw. hand is v v easy to play from there. c/c is fine too but when he checks behind and an A or a K hits the turn i always want to kick myself in the nuts

edit: 1st part "only raising KK/AA" is in reference to raising your flop bet not preflop

[allinonadraw]

Donk flop, fold to a raise. Is that first number really an 8? Thought I was nitty...

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
Donk flop, fold to a raise. Is that first number really an 8? Thought I was nitty...

[/ QUOTE ]

Donking flop is so natural, but it contains no value you do not win when ahead and lose when behind. Checkcalling puts the same amount in the pot, but you might win a cbet from nit, at the cost of giving free cards. But if this player is truly a nit, then he is unlikely to bet again with air, so you get to see a showdown.

I haven't played with him, so my read is not very good /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Big Poppa Smurf]

donking the flop is stupid since he's probably raising all better hands. I don't even know if JJ is in his UTG range here, and some of the time he'll be stupid and raise with AK.

If you check-call his c-bet he won't fire again with air and if he checks through on the flop he probably whiffed with AK so you can play accordingly.

[Kramer]

C/C FLOP and C/F TURN
With those stats I don't think we are ahead very often

[Everlong]

If this is who I think it is from PS NL50 he shows down AA/KK here (unimproved) 100% of the time.

Hit a queen.

[eigenvalue]

I expect him to make a CB. I like to call that and if no A or K appears on the turn, I lead out there for 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot. That works pretty well at this level.

[Jouster777]

Edit: OOPs ignore this...I read the PFR as 0.75%

[ama0330]

Well for starters, 6% is probably more than you think.

Stove has it as - 88+,ATs+,KQs,AQo+, though we can probably assume that this guy is positionally aware so its a little narrower. Thing is that it doesnt really matter because this is NOT just AA/KK every time. We still need to 3bet for two reasons, the most important being value and the second being information which is just as important. I think that if he has AA/KK he will tell us preflop. I 3bet this every time pre and fold it to pressure on a broadway flop.

As played, you are basically wa/wb but reverse implied odds are going to shaft you in this hand because you are most likely not going to improve yet there are plenty of chances for him to push you off your hand particularly if he has the balls to bet JJ/TT when an A or K comes out. I bet this flop, fold to a raise, and if called c/f the turn because you are going to pay the maximum price to be shown his KK otherwise.

[ettorek]

Such a player usually open with any good PP UTG (let say JJ+), just limping with other hands.
QQ is a nice hand so I make a try to play the hand rappresenting trips.
If BB check and UTG does a psb ($6) I reraise to $15: if he push I think I'll muck.

[ama0330]

Ah okay I missed the AF here. I agree with others that he is unlikely to bet the turn with less than AA/KK so perhaps a c/c is better, but you have to c/f the turn.

Still I think a 3bet preflop is the right play.

[Sam Spade]

Wow. He plays tighter than me.

Pokey's post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8629256&amp;an=0&amp;page=0) on hand reading talks about evaluating a players aggression stats in conjunction with VPIP.

[ QUOTE ]
an aggressive preflop player will have a PFR over half of their VPIP. When we're trying to decide a player's preflop holding, we should use their VPIP and their PFR to come to a conclusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

His range is small, and he is aggressive preflop with 60% of his holdings. He is UTG as well. I say his range is AA, KK, QQ and AKs (maybe AK but I doubt it). You both have over 100 BB so I would normally say call for set value, but is this the player that is going broke with just an overpair?

I call because I can't fold QQ to a 4XBB raise, and I do not think we raise as villain's range crushes us.

This would be a great play along hand.

[Bonesy]

I don't see any choice other than leading out here. A nit who missed won't bet here and there are many turn cards you don't want to see.

[Freelancer]

lol talk about nits.

I call preflop as well (and I'm a HUGE fan of 3betting), if you raise your not getting a lot of value at all (extremely slim at best).

I c/c the flop and c/f the turn with this redicilous AF...


Ps. This would be one of the first times I'd play QQ this passivly...

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
lol talk about nits.

I call preflop as well (and I'm a HUGE fan of 3betting), if you raise your not getting a lot of value at all (extremely slim at best).

I c/c the flop and c/f the turn with this redicilous AF...


Ps. This would be one of the first times I'd play QQ this passivly...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty wierd to me, if you are so worried about his range why not just fold preflop? And why would you bother calling the flop? Total MUBS imo

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol talk about nits.

I call preflop as well (and I'm a HUGE fan of 3betting), if you raise your not getting a lot of value at all (extremely slim at best).

I c/c the flop and c/f the turn with this redicilous AF...


Ps. This would be one of the first times I'd play QQ this passivly...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty wierd to me, if you are so worried about his range why not just fold preflop? And why would you bother calling the flop? Total MUBS imo

[/ QUOTE ]
6% still include a lot of hands we beat, however a lot of these hands fold preflop to a 3bet. I'm not as much worried about his range for raising preflop, but his range for calling my 3bet preflop.

I presume that the sample size on the stats is big so that the AF is correct. Because if the AF is correct I don't see him betting on the flop a lot at all. Besides I need better reads than just stats to ever fold a overpair on the flop to a single bet...


This might seem very weak/tight but I've never encountered a player like this before and this is the best I can come up with lol.

[SL__72]

I'm thinking I B/F the flop. You are definitely ahead of his range here, but you are likely well behind his range of raising hands. If called, I c/c his smallish bets on the turn/river... if he bets big, I'm gone.

/edit I think there is value to be extracted from hands like 88, 99, JJ, ATs, but hands that he bets/raises with are bad.

[corsakh]

6% is way more than QQ+. What interests me here is his AF. He has to hit a lot more flops than his AF suggests. Regular straight forward nits would have AF of 3 at these stats. This leads me to a conclusion he is very passive and perhaps is not going to cbet with AK, let alone call a bet. So I think the best line is to check the flop.

If he cbets, he probably has a pair and depending on his other stats I either call, preparing to check/fold the turn, or raise, preparing to fold to any further aggression.

If he does not, I will bet the turn provided no Ace comes.

And 3bet preflop please, makes it so much easier to play further streets.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
6% still include a lot of hands we beat, however a lot of these hands fold preflop to a 3bet. I'm not as much worried about his range for raising preflop, but his range for calling my 3bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree if the situation was heads up, but with the blind to go I prefer to 3bet to isolate.

[Phytopath]

the 0.75% AF is really low, since he plays soo many hands he has got to make alot of peels/call downs post flop. Since checking doesn't effect your AF one way or another.

This guy seems to be an uber nit, If you c/c flop he may even slow down with KK. I'd C/C and see how much he bets on the turn, if it is a small bet just call him down it shouldn't be much.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

3betting preflop is really bad. that is all

[Gelford]

I never played with this guy, but 6% is is total vpip, I assumed he played different depending on position, in which case he wont play 6% under the gun