AK 3 people in the pot 1 all in

[FalconTi0]

I never know what to do in these situations. Do i go ahead and c-bet or do I check? My thinking is if I check and am bet into I have to fold so why not fire first.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($2.55)
SB ($18.90)
Hero ($19.30)
UTG ($9.85)
MP ($1.10)
CO ($20.95)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1.1</font>, CO calls $1, SB folds, Hero calls $0.40.

Flop: ($3.40) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero ?

[Reef]

make it $6 pf

as played probably c/f

[Gelford]

You might consider shoving pf.

But this is 10NL, So you can hit your TPTK and still get paid off, so calling is not terrible, I guess

On flop ... well whatever, at 10NL where noone is paying attention and usually retarted checkfolding is acceptable, you will still get paid off holding AA etc.

[FalconTi0]

the short stack shoved with so little that it wasn't considered a bet so all i could do was call the extra .30 cents or whatever it was. I couldn't bet again pf.

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
the short stack shoved with so little that it wasn't considered a bet so all i could do was call the extra .30 cents or whatever it was. I couldn't bet again pf.

[/ QUOTE ]


Oh missed that .... didn't notice that he was short and all in. ... meh, it is a protected pot, just check/folding is fine here. No need to go crazy just because you hold AK. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FalconTi0]

ok, maybe thats simple but i never know what to do in cash games in those situations

[Gelford]

It really is that simple .... the question is, why do we cbet?

To take down the pot ???

If you read Harrington on hold'em, you will see that he advocates cbetting half the pot and shows that if you take it down one out of three times, then you will make a profit.

That is true, but this advice hurt me a lot when starting out in cash, because I actually thought that cbetting was intended to show a profit and that you cbet in order to make a profit solely thru taking down uncontested pots.

Harringtons book is written for tourneys, so this is not intended as a critique of what he has written, but more to illustrate what mindset you should have in cash.

The thing is that money is won on later streets in ring, at least when playing full stacks, so the flop is not really where you make your earnings.


So let us assume, that you made a hand on the flop, what are you looking to do ... ?? ... well you are looking to pot flop, bet big turn continuing to build a pot and then end it off by putting in a healthy bet on river and winning a BIG pot.

OK ... now the thing is, if you only bet flop when you hold a hand, then you are fairly easy to play against, therefore you bet often when you have not hit anything as well ... in order to allow yourself to be able to bet your made hands and get calls.

At higher stakes you sometimes second barrel the turn as well, well if nothing else in order to prevent villian from floating you. If you never fired a second barrel, then villian could call you on flop with any two cards and just take it away from you on turn (alternatively you could start checkraising, but that is not what we are discussing here).


Ok, so we have established that betting missed board is very much a question of protecting your made hands, so that they can be bet too. (There is a lot more to poker than this, but the issues outlined here in my experience are missed by many sometimes for a long time, I played for over a year before realizing it, and in my case it was due to having been influenced by Harringtons incomplete lesson).


Pause .... ..... after this long rant, here comes my point.

The thing is, this assumes thinking opponents or at least opponents paying attention, at at uNL not many of these exist. So chances are that your made hands will get paid off by trash anyway, so you are not really forced to cbet a lot. Noone notices.

Personally I like to cbet 80-100% in heads up pots, since you do not want to give a too nitty apperance, but in three way pots and larger, I do not cbet. Nobody will notice anyway, that you are not cbetting here, especially if you are cbetting a lot in heads up pots.

It is the same with double barrel bluffs, if your big hands are getting paid off all over the place, there really is no need.