NL 50: AK against TAG

[Dr_Mabuse101]

Villain is a Tag 17/14/3 over 60 Hands.
Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25./$0.50.
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $59.25
Hero: $57.30
CO: $25.65
Button: $52.75
SB: $41.10
BB: $58.45

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($4.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3.5</font>, Button calls.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($11.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $10</font>, Hero calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($31.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $24</font>. Hero ?
Would you bet Turn ?

[Dave I]

Call, you either have the same hand or you beat his pp. Your really only worried about 22 and 44.

No, I don't bet turn. I play it the same.

[xorthio]

would definetly bet turn here, fold to raise

[RAHZero]

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Call, you either have the same hand or you beat his pp. Your really only worried about 22 and 44.

No, I don't bet turn. I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the flush draw that hit on the turn? Looks like a pretty easy fold, I don't see him taking this line with anything that you beat.

[Dave I]

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Call, you either have the same hand or you beat his pp. Your really only worried about 22 and 44.

No, I don't bet turn. I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the flush draw that hit on the turn? Looks like a pretty easy fold, I don't see him taking this line with anything that you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me what diamonds call an EP raise from the button with stats like his?

Edit: Small sample, I guess it could be AQ/AJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif but it's not a call I would expect.

[RAHZero]

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Call, you either have the same hand or you beat his pp. Your really only worried about 22 and 44.

No, I don't bet turn. I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the flush draw that hit on the turn? Looks like a pretty easy fold, I don't see him taking this line with anything that you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me what diamonds call an EP raise from the button with stats like his?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I have pretty similar stats to villain's, and I call here with a ton of suited connectors. Not to mention AJs and AQs (I'll sometimes 3-bet these, sometimes call).

[Maneh]

Make about $8.5 on turn. if u get raised, fold.

As played I think I call with 2.2:1;

[sebbb]

If you called the turn, you might as well have bet first.

Yeah I bet the turn here, about $8, and fold to a raise.

Villain is 17/14? What kind of hands would he call with on the button after a raise? Pocket pairs? Would he do that with Axs or SC's? I guess you don't have enough hands for that maybe.

[Dave I]

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Call, you either have the same hand or you beat his pp. Your really only worried about 22 and 44.

No, I don't bet turn. I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the flush draw that hit on the turn? Looks like a pretty easy fold, I don't see him taking this line with anything that you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me what diamonds call an EP raise from the button with stats like his?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I have pretty similar stats to villain's, and I call here with a ton of suited connectors. Not to mention AJs and AQs (I'll sometimes 3-bet these, sometimes call).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I still call the river though.

[allaboutmyfetti]

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If you called the turn, you might as well have bet first.

[/ QUOTE ]
why?

[RAHZero]

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Call, you either have the same hand or you beat his pp. Your really only worried about 22 and 44.

No, I don't bet turn. I play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the flush draw that hit on the turn? Looks like a pretty easy fold, I don't see him taking this line with anything that you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me what diamonds call an EP raise from the button with stats like his?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I have pretty similar stats to villain's, and I call here with a ton of suited connectors. Not to mention AJs and AQs (I'll sometimes 3-bet these, sometimes call).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I still call the river though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What possible range can you put villain on here that we're 33% or better against? At best, I see us splitting with another AK. Villain will check behind most hands that we're ahead of here.

[sebbb]

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If you called the turn, you might as well have bet first.

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why?

[/ QUOTE ]

turn bet= turn call + FE + information + control of the pot size+ not giving away weakness

attacking&gt;&gt;defending.
controlling &gt;&gt;letting my opponent control.

If the plan was to call a pot size bet, why not make that bet yourself and keep all the advantages of being the aggressor?

[JBizzle104]

For sure gotta bet this turn if you plan on calling it. Maybe he folds thinking you were on a flush draw. If he flat calls this turn bet I then wonder and have to check the river and go from there. If he reraises following your turn bet its an easy fold. I think the turn bet gives a ton of info here and keeps you in control of the hand. Hopefully he calls then check check on the river.

JB

[Dr_Mabuse101]

My thinking was to keep the pot small (Potcontrol). If I bet and he raises me, would should I do than with my TP + second nutflushdraw ? So I think my line saved money. Now on the river I can fold and lost only 15 instead of my hole stack.

[Nick C]

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If you called the turn, you might as well have bet first.

[/ QUOTE ]
why?

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turn bet= turn call + FE + information + control of the pot size+ not giving away weakness

attacking&gt;&gt;defending.
controlling &gt;&gt;letting my opponent control.

If the plan was to call a pot size bet, why not make that bet yourself and keep all the advantages of being the aggressor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Er, what better hand is Villain going to fold?

How useful is the "information" we'll get from a raise? We have top pair and the damn Kd. Do you really want to make, say, a 3/4 pot bet with TPTK and a flush draw only to fold to a big raise when you probably could have check-called for about the same amount?

Related point: Betting only allows us to maintain pot control if Villain cooperates. I'm thinking there's a good chance this guy won't.

I don't have a definite opinion as to whether betting or checking is better on this turn, but I don't think aggressive play is automatically best, all of the time.

[Dave I]

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If you called the turn, you might as well have bet first.

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why?

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turn bet= turn call + FE + information + control of the pot size+ not giving away weakness

attacking&gt;&gt;defending.
controlling &gt;&gt;letting my opponent control.

If the plan was to call a pot size bet, why not make that bet yourself and keep all the advantages of being the aggressor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he can't call with anything we beat but he can bet with many things we do beat. And for all the reasons you mentioned we should be betting.

Giving up control isn't the worst thing you can do. Sometimes it's the best.

[allaboutmyfetti]

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turn bet= turn call + FE + information + control of the pot size+ not giving away weakness


[/ QUOTE ]

We have like 0 fold equity against a better hand, only worse hand are folding so who cares. Also, we don't really care about giving away a free card since we've got a nice draw to the second nuts.

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attacking&gt;&gt;defending.
controlling &gt;&gt;letting my opponent control.


[/ QUOTE ]

meh who cares ... if opponent is goign to take control and put in money as a dog let him do it.

[VPIP100]

If you don't bet, villain will. With any 2.

[sebbb]

ok then if I check-call this turn, what's the plan on the river?