Can't Seem to Cut It - Newbie

[Learning]

Over the past several months I've grown from a slight interest in poker to having read multiple books (Little Green Book, Online Ace, etc), playing regular home games, and registering/playing in a post-Neteller online world (Full Tilt). While I do very well at my home games, consisting of experienced and educated players, I bust out at $10NL.

I think part of the problem may be linked to hesitancy to call out-of-proportion bets by casual players hitting middle-pair. I'll fold out of situations where, against any of my veteran home players, would be a horrible situation, only to find the online competition turn over bottom pair in a showdown against the guy that called his ducks to the river with a facecard-only board.

Am I a complete nit or just playing in stakes where poor play beats "educated poker"? I consitantly find myself in situations where I play aggressively to be outdrawn by a complete donator. My bankroll has dwindled to about half of what I deposited, and I'm concerned.

Sit&Go's seem to play well - although I find that I'm either 1st or 4th, with little in-between.

Any advice for an agrivated new player?

[CaptUnlucky]

Post some specific hands for some help.

Poor play will NEVER beat educated poker. Ever. You will take beats obviously, but it's just variance. Take a break and get over it. In the long term, if you make the correct decisions, you will be a winner, especially at NL10

[Dennisa]

[ QUOTE ]
Over the past several months I've grown from a slight interest in poker to having read multiple books (Little Green Book, Online Ace, etc), playing regular home games, and registering/playing in a post-Neteller online world (Full Tilt). While I do very well at my home games, consisting of experienced and educated players, I bust out at $10NL.

I think part of the problem may be linked to hesitancy to call out-of-proportion bets by casual players hitting middle-pair. I'll fold out of situations where, against any of my veteran home players, would be a horrible situation, only to find the online competition turn over bottom pair in a showdown against the guy that called his ducks to the river with a facecard-only board.

Am I a complete nit or just playing in stakes where poor play beats "educated poker"? I consitantly find myself in situations where I play aggressively to be outdrawn by a complete donator. My bankroll has dwindled to about half of what I deposited, and I'm concerned.

Sit&Go's seem to play well - although I find that I'm either 1st or 4th, with little in-between.

Any advice for an agrivated new player?

[/ QUOTE ]

I notice some regular NL 50 players playing NL 25 yesterday on stars. I think its possible many grinders are moving down 1 or 2 levels, make the pond a much tougher place.

[Hoffma]

Agree 100%. If I'm going to experience a downswing, I want it to be because I'm playing correctly, but taking the bad end of the stick of variance. If I continue to make these correct plays, I will be a long-term winner.

You definitely came to the right place. Start posting hands here for critique.

[Learning]

Even if tougher players are moving down, there is still a massive majority of horrible players that seem to beat me every time. I have some hands that I saved and will convert as soon as I can.

[Montezuma21]

play tight PF.

if you think your hand is best, value bet to the max. don't be afraid to fold if OOP or facing considerable heat. remember that basically all your profit comes from you folding hands that your opponents would have gone broke with.

read both the uSNL and SSNL stickies, esp. fimbulter's post about optimal play at SSNL. post hands.

remember too that many of these players are actually very good hand readers (well, pretty good anyway) because they enter pots so often and with such trash that they have to be in order to survive. always be thinking about their range.

[Learning]

Full Tilt Poker
$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BB: $10.4
UTG: $8
MP: $1.30
CO: $2.20
Hero (BTN): $10.15
SB: $23.05

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($0.15, 6 players)
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Hero calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, BB checks

Playing in a very tight pre-flop game here. I'm hunting for a flush with a limp here.

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.3, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.15</font>, SB folds, BB calls $0.15

Hit TPTK - bet for information as to what my opponent is thinking here.

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif [Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif] ($0.6, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $0.40</font>, BB calls $0.40

Same thing. I figure if he's got the Queen he'll strong-arm me and reraise. Smooth call leaves me confused.

<font color="black">River:</font> 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif [A/images/graemlins/club.gif] ($1.4, 2 players)
<font color="red">BB bets $1.40</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="red">BB raises all in to $9.85</font>, Hero calls all in for $6.50

Two pair on river. I'm assuming that if he's slowplaying any other two pair I have him beat, and if he's overly excited about hitting a pair on Ax that I've got him beat as well. The only obvious exception is AQ, but this guy would have raised that pre-flop. His all-ins have previously been weak hands that he's lucked out on. I'm inclined to call as leaving this profitable situation may be part of the reason I'm not winning (folding for fear). I call.

Thoughts?

[deem]

Dont open limp in a shorthanded game, just don't do it. Flop bet is fine, maybe make it .20 or .25 but much of a muchness.

The river is pretty bad. Any 3 has you beat, I'd just call. Might be a bit weak though.

[CaptUnlucky]

Raise preflop. Open limping on the button is a big mistake.

Don't raise this river either. The idea behind this is that there is no hand that you're beating that will call you. A straight will 3bet, and set will definately call, and a higher two pair will call most of the time.

Fold the river as played

[RAHZero]

Raise that [censored] up on the button! Don't open-limp in 6-max. Axs is a great hand to be opening for a button-raise. Betting the flop is good, but 1/2 the pot just isn't going to cut it. You're giving 3:1 odds, which means any 3 or 67 is correct in calling as long as they can win another 15 cents on the turn and river. The turn bet is fine, there's no reason to believe that villain is drawing and we want to protect our hand. We can take a free showdown on the river if we so choose. As played, the river gives you aces-up, but any 3 just made its straight, and villain is betting into you for the full pot, indicating a strong hand. I would just call here. It's unlikely you're going to get more value out of anything you beat, and villain's line is perfectly consistent with him having a 3 and hitting his straight on the river. Once he goes all-in, your two pair is toast. Calling the river push is a BIG mistake.

[Hoffma]

Preflop, raise to .30 at least. On the flop, bet at least 75% of the pot. I like to check behind this turn (though this may be misguided), and I'm calling a PSB on the river hoping he doesn't have a 3.

Overall your line isn't terrible until your river reraise, which is too small to have folding equity. If you want him to fold you should raise to at least $6, but as CaptUnlucky mentioned, you're almost always better off saving that extra $4.6 and just calling his $1.4.

[Spanky1974]

I can't get past open limping on the button. You have a suited ace with position on both the blinds. Why pay 10c to let them see a free flop with any two cards?

[Montezuma21]

forgot to add: definitely watch the videos available in the uSNL and SSNL fora.

[Gelford]

Welcome to the forums, hope you will like it here /images/graemlins/smile.gif


I will not try to give any advice here, except that you should post troublesome hands and read post here.

And no I must say, that I mean no offence, but there are no really good players at 10NL, one in a while you might might someone from these forums, but they are very rarely there for long. I anybody tries to tell you differently, it is untrue.

So basically if you can't beat 10NL, you aren't very good either. But beware .... poker contains a lot of swings and variance. 10.000 hands is nothing ... 25.000 is also not that much, so keeping on playing might be the cure.


There is also a forum here dedicated solely to sng's, you might want to also visit that ... unlike here, the tone can be harsh there, but keep an open mind and take no offence. SNG play is in many way unique compared so many other forms of poker.

[LayZ]

The videos really help, I wish there were more on here.

Video thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=0&amp;vc=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=7623158&amp;an=&amp;page=0&amp;v c=1)

Watch all of I_STRONG's videos, even though only one is uNL, nearly all of the concepts he applies are valid at our limits too.

[Hoffma]

Beaten to posting a link to the video thread. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Splossy]

I think that hand is a good example of why you might be finding it hard.

You failed to raise PF so let it weak hands for cheap. You don't bet enough on the flop giving opponents odds to call (I think it's usually correct to call 3:1 with a draw as you can make it up when you hit). Turn is OK. When villain donks the river you should just call - looks like he just hit his draw but you can't be sure. You raising and calling his AI totally justified his drawing.

[Triggerle]

I don't want to repeat the advice the others gave, just one more point:

[ QUOTE ]
Playing in a very tight pre-flop game here. I'm hunting for a flush with a limp here.
(...)

Hit TPTK - bet for information as to what my opponent is thinking here.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you limp for flush value you have to fold if you don't hit your flush. You can't formulate a plan pre-flop and then on the flop suddenly change it. If you want to play a suited ace for flush value as well as for TP value then you should include that in your pre-flop plan. When you go back and correct your thought to

[ QUOTE ]
I'm hunting for a flush or top pair with a limp here.

[/ QUOTE ]
it becomes much more apparent that this is just wrong.

[Learning]

I realize, and don't take offense to the fact that I'm not a very strong player as of now. I've watched all of I_STRONG's videos and I think I enjoy his and Boosted J's more than most. As for the hand I posted, the guy turned over 7-3o for the straight, something I should have predicted.

I think I lack a lot of experience and judgment that should flesh out in the next month or so (given my stakes).

Thanks guys!