View Full Version : Does anyone even run at 10ptbb/100?
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 04:21 PM
Before Bill Frist, before October 2006, before Neteller shut down to American players. Before all of these things happened poker was in it's prime, fish still reloaded with their CC's and only a small % of people had BOTH Poker tracker and Poker Ace (now the reverse is true).
Incredible winrates were maintained over a huge sample size by the elite that were fortunate enough to exploit this poker boom. For the rest of us, we either came to late or fell to short. We squeak by with marginal winrates and play ABC poker. We run at 4ptbb/100 at Microlimits and cash out..so we are stlll at microlimits.
We wonder how it is even POSSIBLE to run at 10ptbb/100 over a SUBSTANIAL Sample Size. No not 10k hands, not 20k hands. I challenge someone to show me a RECENT (Jan1st 2007-now) winrate where a person is BEATING the game for 10ptbb/100 over 50K HANDS. I don't believe anyone is doing it, at least not at 25nl+.
The myths of 10ptbb/100++ are only seen over a limited sample size. I see graphs of someone "running well" over 5k hands..10k hands and imply that this is somehow sustainable.
This is just selective screening, from a pure psychological standpoint the players with the best winrates will post more or "brag" more than a players with marginal or even no winrate i.e. You will see more graphs of people winning then people losing (not talking about BBV).
So again, if anyone can prove me wrong and show me recent stats of running at 10ptbb/100 over 50k hands at a decent lmit I encourage you to post.
ImprovinNewbie
02-20-2007, 04:25 PM
i bet this gets locked....
i beat this game for -1 bb by the way over 20k hands
The thing is though, if someone's playing at 10ptbb, they aren't gonna stay at a limit for 50k hands.
IsaacAsimov
02-20-2007, 04:34 PM
I agree with thac and don't forget that someone who is capable of playing NL 25 @ 10ptbb will probably be wasting his time grinding out @ NL 35 over 50k hands just to prove he can do it.
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 04:41 PM
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I agree with thac and don't forget that someone who is capable of playing NL 25 @ 10ptbb will probably be wasting his time grinding out @ NL 35 over 50k hands just to prove he can do it.
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Sorry I believe evidence not hypothetical scenarios.
matrix
02-20-2007, 04:42 PM
I am beating 25NL over a tiny sample (in which I'm running like [censored]) for 12PTBB/100
Good players could toast uNL for in excess of 20PTBB/100 over a decent sample - I'm talking about MSNL players who really understand the game and play it well and who could pick predictable awful uNL players apart if they took the time to study the games hard enough.
These limits are relatively easy to beat for 10PTBB/100 +
No I am not going to play 50K hands to prove it (good luck finding someone that will) I want to recover my roll and am moving up to 100NL (where I played the majority of my poker for a few months) as fast as my little legs will carry me.
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 04:46 PM
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I am beating 25NL over a tiny sample (in which I'm running like [censored]) for 12PTBB/100
Good players could toast uNL for in excess of 20PTBB/100 over a decent sample - I'm talking about MSNL players who really understand the game and play it well and who could pick predictable awful uNL players apart if they took the time to study the games hard enough.
These limits are relatively easy to beat for 10PTBB/100 +
No I am not going to play 50K hands to prove it (good luck finding someone that will) I want to recover my roll and am moving up to 100NL (where I played the majority of my poker for a few months) as fast as my little legs will carry me.
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The point of my post was this. Find someone that can beat ANY LIMIT (25nl-1000nl) at 10ptbb/100 over a decent sample size.
barryc83
02-20-2007, 04:49 PM
I remember this guy Jay1986 who said he was running at 10PTBB/100 at 100nl post Frist. I dont know him personally and cant find the post, but I know that he said it somewhere. Dont know what the sample size was however.
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 04:50 PM
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I remember this guy Jay1986 who said he was running at 10PTBB/100 at 100nl post Frist. I dont know him personally and cant find the post, but I know that he said it somewhere. Dont know what the sample size was however.
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He's coached me and he's very good. It was 10k hands though not 50k
Triggerle
02-20-2007, 04:55 PM
After 40k hands I had one stretch of 5k and another one for 10k hands where nothing could go right and I'm still overall positive. While I'm sure I won't see the 10 before I move up I am fairly certain I could get there if I for some reason would decide to stay.
Note that this is on FTP during off-hours (I'm in Europe), which is considerably tougher than many other sites.
Since I am by no means a good player and see lots of predictable dumb moves that I still can't exploit properly I would guess that 20PTBB/100 would be doable by a top player.
I plan to play 50-100k hands @ 100nl, and crush it btw, i'll post when i'm done
Speed - I realize you haven't been winning lately and your ego is pretty crushed, but you sound really dumb right now. No one wants to stay at a limit just to prove to others that it's possible. Why would they? And how many people were beating nl1000 for 10ptbb over that sample pre-Frist? Not many, 10 was the smaller stakes goal, not the bigger stakes.
Check_The_Nuts
02-20-2007, 05:00 PM
6k hands, 11 PTBB/100. Longest I've ever maintained a ridiculously winrate like that. It was higher, but I dropped some at 50NL recently.
About a 50/50 mix of 25NL an 50NL hands...I agree with posters above that no one would run at 10PTBB/100 for +10k hands without moving up and beating 50NL for a smaller winrate....
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:08 PM
What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:08 PM
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I plan to play 50-100k hands @ 100nl, and crush it btw, i'll post when i'm done
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LOL
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:09 PM
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What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
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That you don't meet the requirements of my post?
matrix
02-20-2007, 05:10 PM
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The point of my post was this. Find someone that can beat ANY LIMIT (25nl-1000nl) at 10ptbb/100 over a decent sample size.
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it's not going to happen at anything higher than 50NL
games down here are crushable for fat winrates because the players are a) VERY predictable b) overplay WAY too many hands and call off stacks with TPTK or worse often.
that kind of value (in BB terms) just doesn't exist at 100NL+
Noone is going to play 50K hands of 25/50NL if they are killing the games cos of the opportunity cost - they'd make bundles more money beating 200NL for 5PTBB/100 and improve their game significantly while they did it.
Jouster777
02-20-2007, 05:10 PM
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What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
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I would say move up.
...and post your graph or stats
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:11 PM
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What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
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That you don't meet the requirements of my post?
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Sorry, how about NL.25 for 23 PTBB for 82k hands?
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:12 PM
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What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
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I would say move up.
...and post your graph or stats
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I'll post in a few. I dont move up for a number of reasons. Number 1 is I am a tilt/drunk playing monkey.
To clarity not moving up: I either cash out or lose my whole roll playing drunk at high limits. I have played as high as $25/$50.
All the PT numbers are my normal game at the micros since I never play so low when I tilt off my roll.
matrix
02-20-2007, 05:13 PM
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Sorry, how about NL.25 for 23 PTBB for 82k hands?
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for the love of god move up.
(and pls post your graph /images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:18 PM
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What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
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That you don't meet the requirements of my post?
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Sorry, how about NL.25 for 23 PTBB for 82k hands?
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Not possible for this year unless you play like a mad man.
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:21 PM
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Not possible for this year unless you play like a mad man.
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Your right it's liftime.
carnivalhobo
02-20-2007, 05:23 PM
you clearly wont believe anyone, even credible people when they tell you this is possible. If you really think its not. Get a sum of money to get a prop bet going to make it worth someone time. Keep in mind that to do this a person would be spending hours of time where they would normally be earning 150+/hr to do this. Im sure though, if you wanted to put 20k or so on it you could find a taker in MSNL.
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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What would you say if I told you I beat 10NL (IE: .05/.10) for 54 PTBB/100 over 64k hands?
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That you don't meet the requirements of my post?
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Sorry, how about NL.25 for 23 PTBB for 82k hands?
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Not possible for this year unless you play like a mad man.
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Since Oct 1. 27 PTBB/100 over 28k hands NL.25
I've played very little but will be picking it up. I can guarantee it wont change much though.
EDIT - remove dash that looked like minus sign.
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:30 PM
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Not possible for this year unless you play like a mad man.
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Your right it's liftime.
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You just missed the point of my post
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:32 PM
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Not possible for this year unless you play like a mad man.
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Your right it's liftime.
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You just missed the point of my post
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No. I didn't. And your still wrong. And I know why you can't win.
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And I know why you can't win.
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Lol.. feisty.
barryc83
02-20-2007, 05:39 PM
I have major leaks that I'm working on right now and I've beat NL50 for about 5ptbb/100 over 35k. I'm far from being one of the best players on PS NL50 too. I think 9-10 ptbb/100 is def possible, however I will never achieve it bc hopefully I'll be at 100nl soon enough. I have no idea whether 10 is achievable at 200nl, and from what I've read it isnt, but that game is way different than 25/50nl. Convincing yourself that you cant beat uNL for a good clip is a cop out and just a way of making excuses IMHO, no offense.
prodonkey
02-20-2007, 05:40 PM
Personally I don't think it's possible either.. I have almost a million datamined hands in my db.. I don't have anyone in it at over 5k hands that is close to 10bb/100
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:42 PM
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Personally I don't think it's possible either.. I have almost a million datamined hands in my db.. I don't have anyone in it at over 5k hands that is close to 10bb/100
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QFT. people with limited sample sizes at 10ptbb are just spreading false propaganda.
prodonkey
02-20-2007, 05:45 PM
I have almost 30k hands of 25nl.. i'm at 6bb/100.. I do feel I have alot of room to improve, but I don't think that what I can fix is going to almost double my win rate.
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I don't have anyone in it at over 5k hands that is close to 10bb/100
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http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r31/tbhackworth/fkuspeedlimits.jpg
?
sputum
02-20-2007, 05:50 PM
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We wonder how it is even POSSIBLE to run at 10ptbb/100 over a SUBSTANIAL Sample Size. No not 10k hands, not 20k hands. I challenge someone to show me a RECENT (Jan1st 2007-now) winrate where a person is BEATING the game for 10ptbb/100 over 50K HANDS. I don't believe anyone is doing it, at least not at 25nl+.
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GRUNCH
10 PTBB at 25NL is not difficult /images/graemlins/confused.gif
Haven't got 50k hands this year but my games are as soft as ever. Non-US site obv, plenty of tables 24-7 and nobody can really play.
Go try it. There's a certain perverse charm in taking money from people who have no idea how to play.
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:51 PM
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Not possible for this year unless you play like a mad man.
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Your right it's liftime.
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You just missed the point of my post
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No. I didn't. And your still wrong. And I know why you can't win.
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Lol@can't win. I ran at 12ptbb/100 over 10k hands at 25nl.
Not sustainable though.
prodonkey
02-20-2007, 05:52 PM
Datamined was the key word.. I have no info on stars..
So you have 2-3 days of playing at over 10... want a cookie?
[ QUOTE ]
Datamined was the key word.. I have no info on stars..
So you have 2-3 days of playing at over 10... want a cookie?
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You said it wasn't, I'm using Speedlimits' awesome "factual evidence" idea to prove you're wrong.
Dave I
02-20-2007, 05:54 PM
I would be a huge loser if I took my current game to say 1/2 or up. I make plays that anyone here would berate me for to no end. Quite frankly what works at these limits would never fly at higher limits.
The thing is people bet way to little and call/payoff way too much at micros. In other words, I lose a little or win a ton on most of my hands. I saw a guy the other day win LESS than the blinds with a flopped set of aces. Never bet, never raised, nothing. That same guy will stack off calling me down with TPNK or 2nd pair.
If this thread turns into a flame war its getting locked. This is part of the reason I dont like win rate threads.
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 05:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We wonder how it is even POSSIBLE to run at 10ptbb/100 over a SUBSTANIAL Sample Size. No not 10k hands, not 20k hands. I challenge someone to show me a RECENT (Jan1st 2007-now) winrate where a person is BEATING the game for 10ptbb/100 over 50K HANDS. I don't believe anyone is doing it, at least not at 25nl+.
[/ QUOTE ]
GRUNCH
10 PTBB at 25NL is not difficult /images/graemlins/confused.gif
Haven't got 50k hands this year but my games are as soft as ever. Non-US site obv, plenty of tables 24-7 and nobody can really play.
Go try it. There's a certain perverse charm in taking money from people who have no idea how to play.
[/ QUOTE ]
US sites only please. I notice UK players always posting with their pretty graphs...WONDER WHY.
prodonkey
02-20-2007, 05:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Datamined was the key word.. I have no info on stars..
So you have 2-3 days of playing at over 10... want a cookie?
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You said it wasn't, I'm using Speedlimits' awesome "factual evidence" idea to prove you're wrong.
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What exactly am I wrong about? There is nobody in my db that is above 6.53 over 5k hands.
Your factual evidence is very short term.. OP said not 10k or 20k.. but something like 50k hands.
You said 5k - if it was a typo, sorry, just pointing it out. I'm done with this thread, I've spread more than enough of my opinion.
prodonkey
02-20-2007, 06:01 PM
What would be wrong with a 50k hand sample of 25 and 50 nl.. everyone says people move up.. so just combine limits and show a bb/100 graph? I'm sure some people here have 50k hands of 25 and 50 nl combined
prodonkey
02-20-2007, 06:03 PM
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You said 5k - if it was a typo, sorry, just pointing it out. I'm done with this thread, I've spread more than enough of my opinion.
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No it wasn't a typo.. you're not in my database, obviously. My db is all full tilt, since Jan 1st.
Gelford
02-20-2007, 06:08 PM
This post reminds me of kindergarten
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This post reminds me of kindergarten
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Who is your daddy, and what does he do?
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9405/kindergartencop1sj6.jpg
Gelford
02-20-2007, 06:15 PM
lol
HojoMofo
02-20-2007, 06:27 PM
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Personally I don't think it's possible either.. I have almost a million datamined hands in my db.. I don't have anyone in it at over 5k hands that is close to 10bb/100
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QFT. people with limited sample sizes at 10ptbb are just spreading false propaganda.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you propose a question if you wont accept any answer besides the one you've already formulated?
Speedlimits
02-20-2007, 06:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Personally I don't think it's possible either.. I have almost a million datamined hands in my db.. I don't have anyone in it at over 5k hands that is close to 10bb/100
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT. people with limited sample sizes at 10ptbb are just spreading false propaganda.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you propose a question if you wont accept any answer besides the one you've already formulated?
[/ QUOTE ]
OK show me a graph/pic from a credible source and I'll accept it.
HojoMofo
02-20-2007, 06:30 PM
Lol, No.
[ QUOTE ]
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Personally I don't think it's possible either.. I have almost a million datamined hands in my db.. I don't have anyone in it at over 5k hands that is close to 10bb/100
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT. people with limited sample sizes at 10ptbb are just spreading false propaganda.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you propose a question if you wont accept any answer besides the one you've already formulated?
[/ QUOTE ]
This isnt the first time hes done this. Locked time methinks.
Gelford
02-20-2007, 06:33 PM
What is the highest sustainable winrate in your view ?
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