Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[adsman]

Someone who has less problems than me. I can dream, right?

[punkass]

She is...

caring
gets my sarcasm
eats like me
good in bed
wants a kid eventually
won't count the minutes we aren't together
doesn't nag
likes to travel
makes a good steak

seriously though, one who makes me be a better man.

[BigPoppa]

1) Smart as a whip
2) Looks really good in jeans and a sweatshirt, and likes to dress that way
3) Really into music and art
4) Genuinely sweet, caring person
5) High tolerance for eccentricity
6) Spectacular in the sack

[kkcountry]

Pam Beesly

[iron81]

Willing to [censored] me
Not fat

I imagine that there are other qualities, but they don't seem very important right now.

[TheJared]

From a "Mystery Method" which is a book about how to become a PUA. Funny book, but this IMO is the best section:

"1) An attractive woman who takes care of herself
2) A woman who is sociable and has friends
3) A woman who has a real thirst for life
4) A woman who has a great energy and chemistry when the two of you are together
5) A woman who is not a flake
6) A woman who is in touch with her own sensuality. She's not a baby anymore
7) A woman who can seek after her own fulfillment instead of waiting for approval from her friends
8) A classy and smart woman with an education
9) A woman who is adventurous and has a great imagination"

[W. Deranged]

Respectable Criterion: Someone who consistently challenges me intellectually, preferably with a strong dose of caustic-yet-playful wit.

Superficial Criterion: Very thin.

[xorbie]

cute, likes music/tv/movies that i do (at least some), slightly fcked up in the head, enjoys my sense of humor, not totally crazy, not naggy.

[cardsharkk04]

pretty smile, skinny, good sense of humor, sociable, chill, good in bed

I seriously cannot stand girls that make a big deal out of everything. I don't wanna deal with that unnecessary drama. Also girls who are overly emotional get on my nerves too.

[tuq]

Jesus Christ I used to be picky about this, but over time I have loosened my requirements considerably to: work out at least several times/week (I don't mind anymore if they're not thin so long as "fit") and the big one: don't be clingy.

I have a friend whose wife calls exactly at 5:07 every afternoon when we're out on one of our beer & Golden Tee benders. Like clockwork. She works until exactly 5PM and has a short drive home. When he's not there she calls him. This is annoying and all the more so since she typically goes to the gym at that time anyway. WTF, why do you need to know where he is at all times? If I lived with a broad and I came home to an empty house I'd be like yeah, some alone time for tuq, take your time doing whatever byotch.

[AZK]

Long cynical answer: This is a nice thread to start and all, but we all know that it's retarded right? Your ideal woman is almost always nothing like the woman you are attracted to or end up with. Talking about it is sort of a waste in my opinion. I talk about wanting to date or being in love with girls that are supermodel thin yet I have fallen real hard for thick girls at times, I've also dreamed about girls that are smarter than me, messed around with one for a bit, hated it. I was reading a study the other day where they asked women to rank the top 5 things about men they want/need, they then put them through a speed dating like experiment and asked them which guys they liked/would like to see again...for most of the women, the men were nothing like what they described, when confronted with these facts, the women just shrugged and didn't know why they picked who they did. I don't know if the experiment was conducted with men ranking women, but I imagine the results would be similar. What's the bottom line? Stop worrying/thinking about it and just get out there? Probably.

Short answer: You know those dreams you have sometimes that are so unbelievable for whatever reason, that you wake up and the rest of the day you are depressed? Well my woman can come in any size/shape/form/intelligence/culture/etc but I want to feel like I'm dreaming 90% of the time (Experience has already taught me that 100% is impossible - not because it can't happen (though it is HIGHLY unlikely), but also because if it does, some other aspect is probably off) Obviously I have ideas of what my preferences are for particular traits (i.e. skinny over fat), but does that mean it's going to happen one way or another? No.

[Dids]

Obviously there's a set of characteristics that you'd find ideal, but that coming into place in one specific person is a lot to ask. Here's a few things that I would consider deal breakers though.

1- She needs to have a slightly absurdist sense of humor. I like goofy [censored], and if she's not gonig to grasp that, we're going to have a problem.

2- I don't think I could ever marry somebody who was republican.

3- I don't think I could ever marry somebody who didn't have slightly similiar religious belifes (or the lack thereof) as I do.

4- Nobody painfully simple.

[Dominic]

I used to make lists when I was younger, but nowadays all that seems to matter is that she be kind, understanding and loving. And that she truly enjoys my company.

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]


2- I don't think I could ever marry somebody who was republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

I normally find statements like this absolutely absurd. But maybe it's just because politics/religion are so far from what's important to me right now that I couldn't care how she felt one way or another, as long as she was willing to hear other points of view on a given matter, consider them, and be able to either reason why her point is better or have the ability to understand and support the other side.

[MTUCache]

Short answer... with a long explanation.

The ideal woman for me is a college athlete, on a team sport.

The qualities it takes to succeed in that arena are virtually the same qualities that I like in my women. She's athletic, confident, comfortable, competitive, gets along with other women, knows how to have fun, likely drinks me under the table, she's likely smart (enough to get through college anyway), has no problem whatsoever with things getting physical (even if that involves some discomfort and/or scrapes and bruises). Most of all, she's independant.... she's busy, and her life isn't occupied by the fact that she wants some guy hanging around. I fit into her life, I'm not her entire life.

There's something about the female athlete that really gets to me... she knows what she wants, and more importantly how to get it. She's not going to be expecting someone else to do things for her, she's not going to be shy or coy, and she's going to call other people on their [censored] when she sees it.

[Dids]

AZK,

Politics and religion are pretty important to me, for one, two, I just have some HUGE idealogical gaps with your average republican and that's just not somebody with whom I'm going to be compatible.

[limon]

1. hot
2. bisexual
3. has her own money

most of the stuff about smart, funny, outgoing etc. are included in bisexual and has her own money.

[Colt McCoy]

I'm looking for an 18 year old blonde with big boobs and daddy issues.

[fish2plus2]

[ QUOTE ]
1. hot
2. bisexual
3. has her own money

most of the stuff about smart, funny, outgoing etc. are included in bisexual and has her own money.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.thairath.co.th/2550/entertainment/Feb/library/12/ent5.jpg

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
AZK,

Politics and religion are pretty important to me, for one, two, I just have some HUGE idealogical gaps with your average republican and that's just not somebody with whom I'm going to be compatible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dated someone for a while who's a Republican. I actually learned alot of stuff and it was good to get a different viewpoint on issues. Please note that I'm not that into politics but am a registered Democrat.

She was though, fairly moderate - if she were far right I don't think I could've dated her.

-Al

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


2- I don't think I could ever marry somebody who was republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

I normally find statements like this absolutely absurd. But maybe it's just because politics/religion are so far from what's important to me right now that I couldn't care how she felt one way or another, as long as she was willing to hear other points of view on a given matter, consider them, and be able to either reason why her point is better or have the ability to understand and support the other side.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard disclaimer: VERY GENERAL POLITICAL STATEMENT TO FOLLOW - NO FLAMING PLEASE.

I agree with Dids. A big reason is because in the current political climate, supporting Republicans requires pretty huge blinders. I see nothing wrong with fiscal conservatism, personal responsibility (to a reasonable point), and the government mostly staying out of your business (again, to a reasonable point). However, to say that the Republicans who currently hold power are holding to these ideals seems like a stretch. By definition, a "liberal" thinker is going to be more open to new ideas and discussion than a "conservative." Of course this is not true in regards to pundits and politicians, where both sides are much more inflexible. However, I find conservatives often much less willing to have a reasonable argument, admit mistakes, etc.

For the most part, I have found social conservatives whom I dislike to have certain characteristics: They either have a limited world-view, (far too focused on the U.S., not caring/knowing about the rest of the world) and/or they are religious and allow this to rule their perspective. As an atheist (or skeptical agnostic, I suppose to be precise) I don't necessarily mind people who believe in God (my wife does) but I don't want to spend my life with someone who uses that as the basis for most of her decision-making. Also, I couldn't spend forever with someone who had a culturally limited perspective. Just not interesting. I don't mean to single out other posters, but something guids posted in another thread was very interesting to me. He was going on about hating liberals who hate America and insult the country and stating that America was the greatest country in the world. Blah blah blah. It just seemed so juvenile. Greatest country in the world? Lol. Who thinks like that? I enjoy living in the U.S., I enjoy the fact that it is the pre-eminent cultural, economic, and military power in the world. I'd like it to stay that way, and criticizing certain aspects of the country/government is the way to improvement instead of stagnation. How do you rank countries anyway?

OK, post too long. Time to stop typing. My point is just that "Republican" these days stands for more than just political affiliation - it's indicative of a mindset. Of course there are exceptions everywhere, but essentially DidsIsRight.

[The Yugoslavian]

Degen,

Another great question and thread.

Hrrmm.....again I don't have enough clarity to answer accurately. She basically has to rule at life. But that's not very focused, lol.

Yugoslav

[Actual God]

Excellent post 7ontheline. Republicans these days are more like authoritarians than conservatives, and who wants to date an authoritarian (unless it's like a fetish thing)?

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
Excellent post 7ontheline. Republicans these days are more like authoritarians than conservatives, and who wants to date an authoritarian (unless it's like a fetish thing)?

[/ QUOTE ]
This may sound like a cop-out but the less interested a broad is in politics the better. "All She Wants to Do Is Dance" by Don Henley sums up my thoughts on this matter pretty nicely. I don't give a crap if our ideologies don't line up, we just won't talk about it. But that's just me.

[El Diablo]

Degen,

She has to be smart. Basically, smart enough to get my sense of humor and smart enough to have conversations on a wide range of topics.

She has to be attractive. This to me basically means she just passes a certain level of attractiveness. As long as a girl passes that bar, her being hotter than that matters much less than all the other factors.

As I've gotten older, I've come to agree w/ Dom's statement a lot. Her just being a nice person is so important.

A decent number of shared interests is important.

Being into athletics/exercise is important.

I could go on for quite a bit more. The challenge for me as I get older is that every time I spend some time with a new woman, I take what I like best about her and add it to the picture of my ideal woman in my head. The older I get, the more unattainable this ideal becomes. This is a real issue that hopefully I'm able to address. Having said all that, though, it really boils down to me meeting girls and every now and again just having that "Wow, I really dig her!" feeling. That's really the main thing.

[guids]

http://z.about.com/d/tvdramas/1/0/W/5/vanmarcil.jpg




Not her, but her Tv character, shes ideal imo.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Excellent post 7ontheline. Republicans these days are more like authoritarians than conservatives, and who wants to date an authoritarian (unless it's like a fetish thing)?

[/ QUOTE ]
This may sound like a cop-out but the less interested a broad is in politics the better. "All She Wants to Do Is Dance" by Don Henley sums up my thoughts on this matter pretty nicely. I don't give a crap if our ideologies don't line up, we just won't talk about it. But that's just me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, politics might become an issue if you're actually fairly powerful in society. Religion, on the other hand, would be an issue the second you have kids.

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]
AZK,

Politics and religion are pretty important to me, for one, two, I just have some HUGE idealogical gaps with your average republican and that's just not somebody with whom I'm going to be compatible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring more to the point: If X, then I NEVER no matter what will do Y. I just find statements like this dumb. You can fill in x and y with whatever...republican, democrat, muslim, jew, whatever. I guess this stems from my apathy/disgust towards politics and organized religion in a sense that, I see why both sides argue what they do, I choose to stay out of it and have no real feeling one way or another for a republican or a democrat, I'd support both, but I wouldn't support a political nut who refuses to see the otherside's arguments or refuses to acknowledge that their side isn't always right. Most politically active individuals fit into this category. People wanting to talk politics is fine, people wanting to argue or refusing to listen/willing to even look at me because I feel some way? Basically [censored] them....

edit: For example, I am an independent but primarily vote democrat, I have a lot of friends that are republican, I like them more than my pro-democrat friends who refuse to talk to these people and are disgusted by them.

[tuq]

guids, I've always had a massive crush on Vanessa Marcil, going back to when she was doing Cover Girl ads or something like that. I can't tolerate that Vegas show enough to watch her though, unless she's in something else I don't know about.

[ QUOTE ]
The challenge for me as I get older is that every time I spend some time with a new woman, I take what I like best about her and add it to the picture of my ideal woman in my head. The older I get, the more unattainable this ideal becomes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've heard a common theme from many older single people (meaning around 40 & never married, no kids). They say that they older they get the more selfish they become with their time, and as such they're more picky with whom they choose to spend it with.

Then again, in the last couple of years several of them have gotten married for the first time in their 40s. So maybe they did finally find their ideal woman, or maybe they got tired of waiting and settled. I'm leaning towards the latter but it's not something I could ask them...

[Dids]

"I was referring more to the point: If X, then I NEVER no matter what will do Y"

AZK,

In general I agree. I try to live my life without making generalizations, and this isn't something I've come to lightly. Keep in mind that my objection isn't really "all republicans" but "somebody who holds what I perceive as most traditional republican social values".

[Banditgberg]

http://f.screensavers.com/OMS/img/535/curbyourenthusiasmss_215.gif

Cheryl Hines...her character's personality on Curb Your Enthusiasim

[Mister Z]

The older I get the more I realize how important the social aspect of a relationship is. You have to be comfortable in each other's group of friends and be able to make friends as a couple. Not having this is a recipe for big fights no matter how well you get along together.

[fluffpop62]

i am doing a man!

challenging (because he is intelligent and questioning, and won't just do whatever i tell him), tall, not skinny, dark haired, athletic, HANDY, endearing (will use pet names to his advantage), easy to get along with, charming (not to the point of PUA, just enough to have him get along with friends and family), and MOTIVATED, with goals.

i capitalized the ones that seem to be extremely hard to find.

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
i am doing a man!

[/ QUOTE ]
You remind us of this basically every post.

[nath]

I'm sort of rebuilding my expectations from the ground up. Right now all I have is that there must be a mutual attraction and she has to love me back.

I give bonus points for being smart and having a sense of humor. I'm pretty turned on by a witty, sarcastic woman I can banter with. Redheads are a bonus. I also like dancers, although in my experience they tend to be nutty.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pathetic. Mine just has to have a pleasant demeanor and big [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, at least you have lots of options this way.

[Coffee]

I think my answer is similar to iron81's. My ideal woman is cute and interested in me. Everything else is just scenery at this point. I'm a strange enough character that it will take an equally strange girl, and strange in my sort of way, to be interested in me. So, really, this seems like I'm being very inclusive, but my personality is a pretty stout filter for most potential dateables.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
and MOTIVATED, with goals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fluff,

I can't imagine what this could possibly be referring to.

[Anacardo]

Take, say, Margaret Thatcher, or Golda Meir. Put her in her twenties. Make her kind-hearted and sorta-hot-and-up. By day, I will be her chief adviser. By night, I will do her. This will solve 100% of my life.

[mikech]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to make lists when I was younger, but nowadays all that seems to matter is that she be kind, understanding and loving. And that she truly enjoys my company.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to live,
I want to give,
I've been a miner for a heart of gold.
It's these expressions I never give
That keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

I've been to Hollywood,
I've been to Redwood,
I crossed the ocean for a heart of gold.
I've been in my mind, it's such a fine line
That keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

Keep me searching for a heart of gold,
You keep me searching and I'm growing old.
I've been a miner for a heart of gold,
Keep me searching for a heart of gold.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I used to make lists when I was younger, but nowadays all that seems to matter is that she be kind, understanding and loving. And that she truly enjoys my company.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to live,
I want to give,
I've been a miner for a heart of gold.
It's these expressions I never give
That keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

I've been to Hollywood,
I've been to Redwood,
I crossed the ocean for a heart of gold.
I've been in my mind, it's such a fine line
That keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

Keep me searching for a heart of gold,
You keep me searching and I'm growing old.
I've been a miner for a heart of gold,
Keep me searching for a heart of gold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ain't it the goddamn truth.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
http://f.screensavers.com/OMS/img/535/curbyourenthusiasmss_215.gif

Cheryl Hines...her character's personality on Curb Your Enthusiasim

[/ QUOTE ]

My ex told me that her characters personality is the only woman who could put up with me. Something about the fact that all my friends think of me as the Aussie Larry David. Freaky that you posted this.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
i am doing a man!

challenging (because he is intelligent and questioning, and won't just do whatever i tell him), tall, not skinny, dark haired, athletic, HANDY, endearing (will use pet names to his advantage), easy to get along with, charming (not to the point of PUA, just enough to have him get along with friends and family), and MOTIVATED, with goals.

i capitalized the ones that seem to be extremely hard to find.

[/ QUOTE ]

By handy, do you mean someone who can pick up the phone and call the Guy who can come fix the plumbing? 'Cause that's me.

[blackize]

Smart, very smart- I've dated dumb girls and my interest in them never lasts. My ideal girl has to be intellectually stimulating to me first and foremost.

Generally sweet- Mainly not a bitch

Attractive(very relative)- I can do hot, cute, or some combination of the two. If I'm attracted to someone based on their mind and personality, I'm going to find them attractive so long as they aren't digustingly fat.

Distinguishable personality- I know plenty of girls who haven't met this requirement. They're book smart and can actively converse on a variety of topics. After a while you find out that their personality is exactly like that of their friends, they are incapable of having their own opinions about anything, and will end up being incredibly annoying by agreeing with you all the time.

Not religious- I'm fine with spiritual, but religious girls just cause problems for an atheist like me.

A variety of interests- Has to be able to enjoy going with me to a museum, bar, party, traveling, concert, dinner, movie, and visiting family.

Must have decent taste in movies- Her favorite genre absolutely cannot be horror, must enjoy or at least respect the fact that I enjoy LOTR, at least tolerate sci-fi, and be able to enjoy long character driven dramas.

[adsman]

I just want to add that I think a lot of the guys who have posted in this thread are going to die single.

[diddle]

Someone who makes me smile.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]

I just want to add that I think a lot of the guys who have posted in this thread are going to die single.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just shy of 22 and have come to the realization that this is a very likely outcome for me.

[ChicagoTroy]

[ QUOTE ]
She has to be smart. Basically, smart enough to get my sense of humor and smart enough to have conversations on a wide range of topics.

She has to be attractive. This to me basically means she just passes a certain level of attractiveness. As long as a girl passes that bar, her being hotter than that matters much less than all the other factors.

As I've gotten older, I've come to agree w/ Dom's statement a lot. Her just being a nice person is so important.

A decent number of shared interests is important.

Being into athletics/exercise is important.

I could go on for quite a bit more. The challenge for me as I get older is that every time I spend some time with a new woman, I take what I like best about her and add it to the picture of my ideal woman in my head. The older I get, the more unattainable this ideal becomes. This is a real issue that hopefully I'm able to address. Having said all that, though, it really boils down to me meeting girls and every now and again just having that "Wow, I really dig her!" feeling. That's really the main thing.

[/ QUOTE ]
D, you are setting yourself up for failure. I don't get this at all. I used to think I wanted a girl as smart as me, hot, athletic, etc., and the reality was those women tend to be hyper-competitive and don't possess the personality traits I want.

Give me attractive, fit, not dumb, sunny disposition (critical, I'm moody), has her own activities separate from mine, and makes friends easily. I'll save the geopolitical and technology discussions for my guy friends.

Being smart and having money are good traits in a man. I suppose it's a bonus if your wife has them, but they should be strictly in the "bonus" category, IMO.

[RichC.]

breathing

[fluffpop62]

Dom,
I've gotten to the point where I would accept even that.

I am fully capable of hanging shelves, checking my oil, hanging my curtains, and doing other things that it would be nice to have a guy for. But when my shelf falls down because I did it wrong (I don't really know what I did wrong; the other one stayed up), I would like said guy to help me [censored] hang it back up. It's [censored] when my DAD asks him to help me too, since he doesn't have time, and he says he'll think about paying someone to do it. FOR GOD'S SAKE, GROW SOME BALLS!

Basically I just want a guy with balls. Kind of goes with the challenging thing, but I'd really appreciate more physical stuff.

[OrigamiSensei]

It's the truth that whatever one claims to prefer has little to do with reality as it occurs. As a result I always describe my situation thusly:

"I really dig slim brunettes ... which is why I married a buxom redhead"

Fortunately all turned out well /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Fast Food Knight]

1. Intelligence. HUGE. And respects mine.
2. Sense of humor
3. Empathy
4. Confident in themselves, me, and our relationship
5. Easy to get along with. Specifically, not argumentative or a know-it-all
6. Great sex

[tuq]

FFK,

I think it's hot that you're describing your ideal woman. /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif Although you left off

7. Wants tuq to watch.

[El Diablo]

Chicago: "those women tend to be hyper-competitive" I generally like women who are pretty competitive and driven. I don't care what it's about, as long as it's something. This has in the past meant career, science, art, music, sports. And yeah, it can be challenging in a relationship. But otherwise I just get really bored really quickly.

ads: "I just want to add that I think a lot of the guys who have posted in this thread are going to die single." That's a distinct possibility for me that I'm very aware of. I still prefer that outcome to many of the other options.

[Peter McDermott]

The number of people insisting 'she has to be smart' is something that I find very interesting. I know a lot of extremely smart women -- most of whom vary between acceptable and hot (for their age, which admittedly is somewhat past their prime now). I suppose in the 6.5 to 7.5, and definitely all more attractive than the men of their age.

All of them really struggle to meet and attract men. They swear that it's because men don't really want smart women. They don't want complete boneheads, but when a woman is much smarter than 99% of the men that they meet, men seem to find it offputting.

So perhaps the criteria should be 'smart, so long as she isn't smarter than I am.'

[renodoc]

Republican women are really hot.

[DCopper04]

Honesty/trustworthiness is far and away the most important thing. Seems like that should be a given, though.

[60Vauban]

As a woman I think most of my friends fit what each of you is looking for. The question for all of us is how to meet each other!

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
The number of people insisting 'she has to be smart' is something that I find very interesting. I know a lot of extremely smart women -- most of whom vary between acceptable and hot.

All of them really struggle to meet and attract men. They swear that it's because men don't really want smart women. They don't want complete boneheads, but when a woman is much smarter than 99% of the men that they meet, men seem to find it offputting.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting concept that could be comparable to a guy having to be taller than a woman to make it an acceptable pairing. He MUST be > her in height, income, intelligence, etc. or he feels inadequate.

I don't think it applies to me, though, since I tend to hold in contempt people I consider dumb. Maybe the best fit for me is a chick who likes to do crossword puzzles but comes to me when she gets stuck. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
As a woman I think most of my friends fit what each of you is looking for. The question for all of us is how to meet each other!

[/ QUOTE ]
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/tuq2k2/22.jpg

[Anacardo]

Something on the order of 95%, or more, of the human population eventually gets married or coexists in the kind of relationship that might as well be marriage in everything but name, at least once in their lives. Apparently people are more compatible than we might think, or else we just settle for whatever at some point.

[guids]

Ill be one of the first to say, that I dont want a smart woman, I dont really get that one much, most smart chicks I meet are a pain in the ass.

[7ontheline]

I had to have a smart woman. Dumb women (or average women) are really boring to me. I guess I agree that I don't really want a woman smarter than me (you know, my latent chauvinism coming out) - this hasn't really been a problem because I've probably met less than 5 women who meet this criteria in my age group in my life. I know it sounds arrogant, but it's not meant to be. I've always had top test scores, eye doctor, blah blah blah. I have a lot of colleagues whom I would consider equal with me, but truly smarter? Not really. At a certain point the whole thing gets kind of pointless anyway - it's not like you're going to make your GF/wife take an IQ test to ensure she is at a certain minimum but not above a certain maximum. I just wanted a woman who can hold an intelligent conversation, who has an interesting career, and who doesn't instantly bore me with what she's interested in.

Guids, I can see where many "smart" women would indeed be a pain in the ass. Too often these women have a huge chip on their shoulder about how smart they are, almost like some sort of insecurity stemming from gender issues. They seem to constantly have to prove how smart they are. It's annoying behavior regardless of what gender you are, and kind of nullifies their intelligence. Sure, you're smart, but you're a bitch. Why would I date you?

[60Vauban]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I agree that I don't really want a woman smarter than me (you know, my latent chauvinism coming out)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Too often these women have a huge chip on their shoulder about how smart they are, almost like some sort of insecurity stemming from gender issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder why you think its the women with the issues.

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]


I wonder why you think its the women with the issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it certainly could be a matter of my own ego, I'll admit that. I'm not trying to brag and wave my e-penis (e-brain?) around though, I'm trying to set some context. In daily life I don't go around trying to compare my intelligence/accomplishments to everyone else. I ought to amend my last post, I suppose. I'll put it this way - any woman I've ever met whom I considered "smarter" than me had some sort of weird issues, whether it be her ego or social skills or something. I don't think it was all me, although maybe. In any case, I was trying to be flippant with the "male chauvinism" remark and it probably didn't come off well.

[punkass]

[ QUOTE ]
Ill be one of the first to say, that I dont want a smart woman, I dont really get that one much, most smart chicks I meet are a pain in the ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll spend too much time just looking at her, thinking..."god, good thing you're pretty". Eventually the pretty loses its flavor. Then your friends will make fun of you.

[guids]

I dont want the chick to be retarded, I just dont want someone thats really academic, Im not much of a relationship guy, but I dont spend a lot of time with the women that I am dating, and I dont intend to when I find the ideal one either, so when we do go out, or spend time together, id rather it be superficial and light, not discussing politics or something along those lines. Ill take a girl that can distiguish the difference between a gucci or a prada shoe, rather than plato or socrates.

[kylewa10]

Whole thread and didn't see great family, didn't look that hard for it though. Dating a chick with wackjobs for parents/siblings/kids sucks.

[goodgrief]

I'm with Ian Banks on this one. A beautiful, passionate murderess suits me just fine. However, as an old married lady, I'm sure not looking for a LTR. I get that stuff at home. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

.

[Colt McCoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Ill be one of the first to say, that I dont want a smart woman, I dont really get that one much, most smart chicks I meet are a pain in the ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you on this. I don't want to date the village idiot or anything, but I have male friends to talk about business, technology, sports, philosophy with. With a woman I want more of an emotional & physical connection, not an intellectual one. I want someone who understands and feeds my emotional needs as I do hers.

I also don't care if she has any of the same interests. In fact most of the people I know who have been married a long time have separate interests and spend time apart.

I wonder if a lot of the things guys are listing here must come from some instinct to mate with the woman that will produce the strongest offspring rather than the one you'll enjoy being with the most.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to make lists when I was younger, but nowadays all that seems to matter is that she be kind, understanding and loving. And that she truly enjoys my company.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%.

A lot of the traits that people are listing in this thread are things that initially attract them to women, or keep them interested for a while. But most of the traits are very unimportant in having a long and happy relationship.

Being smart - This is very over-rated. It is not like you will be having deep philosophical or political debates with your wife. That is what friends, internet forums, book clubs etc are for.

Common interests - Very unimportant. What is MUCH MUCH more important is having someone that is understanding, and genuinely encourages and doesn't mind listening to you sometimes ramble about your own interests and dreams. Doing the same for your partner is offcourse essential.

Sense of humor - Being very witty or funny can get kinda annoying in a partner. But being light-hearted and taking life not too seriously is very important IMO.

Attractiveness/sex life - Cliche, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Also, a good sex life will come naturally in an honest and loving relationship.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

I wonder if a lot of the things guys are listing here must come from some instinct to mate with the woman that will produce the strongest offspring rather than the one you'll enjoy being with the most.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is well put.

[bd8802]

1) Does not derive her happiness from me
2) Motivation and desire to do something
3) Not clingy
4) Respects my interests and friends
5) Intelegent
5) Smokin' hot

[bd8802]

[ QUOTE ]
So perhaps the criteria should be 'smart, so long as she isn't smarter than I am.'

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people might have that issue. I wonder if it matters what area of intelligence they have. If the intelligence would be in the same industry/area then it might be a turn off. But, if I met a super smart chemist, lawyer, business person then I would think that is a huge turn on. But, a super smart women IT professional I am not so sure. Probably because of the "dork" stereotype that comes along with it.

['Chair]

smart
funny
small vajyne
not boring in bed

[El Diablo]

Isura,

"Being smart - This is very over-rated. It is not like you will be having deep philosophical or political debates with your wife. That is what friends, internet forums, book clubs etc are for."

This is by far the most important thing for me. While I might not be having debates, I like to talk about all sorts of stuff and if someone I'm with can't carry on conversations on a broad range of topics, I get bored. Of course I love you guys, but it's tough for me to take the El D Forum with me to brunch.

"Common interests - Very unimportant."

Wow. To me, someone who can participate in activities with me (concerts, sports, travel) and really enjoy them is HUGE.

"Attractiveness/sex life - Cliche"

Cliche, maybe, but it's definitely important to me.

[Red Lion]

Isura and El Diablos last few posts are fine examples of why this thread exists. We all have different interests and wants. I can personally see it from both perspectives. I am looking for a middle ground.

A girl who has a few common interests, not many.
I am looking for a smart girl. Not so smart that she makes me feel inadequate.
As far as looks go, yes its defiantly in the eye of the beholder.

[Fast Food Knight]

[ QUOTE ]

smart
funny
small vajyne
not boring in bed

[/ QUOTE ]

Ensuing IM convo:

FFK: how deep "smart
funny
small vajyne
not boring in bed"
FFK: lol
AEKDBet's Chair: short and to the point
AEKDBet's Chair: loves good food
FFK: haha
AEKDBet's Chair: likes to talk [censored] about others
FFK: hahahahahahaha
AEKDBet's Chair: likes fake diamonds
FFK: for the record they're not "fake" their "different"
AEKDBet's Chair: yeah yeah

[Isura]

Diablo,

Regarding the smartness, I def don't want a dumb ass. But I think that most people with a college education are smart people and can carry on a conversation. If they suck to talk to, you probably won't end up with them in the first place. But being rocket scientist type smart is more what I meant by overrated.


Common interests; those things you mentioned are not regular events (atleast not for most people), and I don't think that both people have to be really interested to enjoy them. I can take my GF to an nba game and she will have a good time even though she is not a big baskteball fan. Travel can get tough if they don't like to travel, once you're out there it is not too hard to find activties that suit both of your interests. So with common interests, I was referring more so to things like poker, working out, reading that you do an everyday basis.

[SoNo41]

--i always think of 2+2 as an all male forum--

this is how I feel too, and why I haven't registered until now. anyway, I do hope there is room for female poker players here at 2+2. most of the time like I would just be ridiculed if I posted here, but I hope that's not true.

still, I must admit, it is not only males who can be superficial sometimes. For me a big dick is an attribute of an ideal man.

[SoloAJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Whole thread and didn't see great family, didn't look that hard for it though. Dating a chick with wackjobs for parents/siblings/kids sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a tremendous addition. I attest that this is true. For some reason, they are influenced heavily by these members....way too much.

This might be the most underrated but severely important thing in this thread.

[El Diablo]

k,

"Whole thread and didn't see great family, didn't look that hard for it though. Dating a chick with wackjobs for parents/siblings/kids sucks."

I totally agree here. I'd extend it a little bit to say that for people who have good relationships w/ their family, I think it's very tough to have a strong relationship with someone who had a very troubled family life and/or doesn't have a good relationship with their family. This manifests itself in areas like them not being able to relate to priorities/sacrifices the other is willing to make for family.

[SoloAJ]

I have a question of inexperience for the crowd (I've only had one relationship myself)....

Are you guys (and girls) mostly assembling your lists out of contrast of what you found you disliked in previous relationships?

Some of you are making it clear that you've dated a dumb girl and it got boring etc....but does that really mean you want a "smart girl?"

It just seems that the better way (though lengthier and tedious) would be to explain all the things you DON'T like in a companion.


As for me listing things I want,
*Emotionally independent stability
(this is all encompassing, it includes not needing to know where I am 24/7, smothering me, getting upset at me if I forget to tell her something I plan to do, etc.)

*Finds me funny
I have a relatively dry but sharp wit to me that most people around here aren't used to becuase it isn't that "Dane Cook funny" where you yell and be the center of attention.

And since we're talking "ideal" I would say wants the same thing out of a relationship as I do...which is basically romantic idealism that you find in movies. It involves a large degree of selflessness that I have yet to find in any of my girl-friends so far.

Truth be told though...she just needs to be fun to be good enough for right now I guess. If I wanted a serious relationship though, the 3 things listed above might be the biggest things...I don't know.

Attraction is meh. I have been attracted to a lot of "ugly" girls because of their personalities. That said, my ex was pretty hot and I thought that made everything sexual a lot better. But I don't have any comparison.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]

Are you guys (and girls) mostly assembling your lists out of contrast of what you found you disliked in previous relationships?

Some of you are making it clear that you've dated a dumb girl and it got boring etc....but does that really mean you want a "smart girl?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I've dated dumb girls and girls of average intelligence. The two smart girls I've dated were the best relationships by far. Religion ruined the one of those that got serious which is why "not religious" is on my list.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I used to make lists when I was younger, but nowadays all that seems to matter is that she be kind, understanding and loving. And that she truly enjoys my company.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I thought...when I was 20.

Then I met a hot girl who loved me like life itself. She wasn't smart. She didn't have a life of her own - she wanted my life. She anticipated all my needs and shared all my opinions. After a year with her, I was SO unhappy. It took three tries to break up with her - she would cry for hours and demand to know what she could do to make me happy - and I realized she could NEVER make me happy.

I needed intelligence, independence, all those things that I thought didn't really matter. Since realizing this, I've had a history of dating women other men fear (due to their intelligence, independence, opinions and/or height) - to bring out the softer side of women like that is a great feeling.

My current GF is really smart (a lead developer of aviation software), gets my humor and has great (yet slightly different) taste in food, film and music. We have common interests plus our own interests and regularly take "personal time" to do our own thing. Oh, and she becomes a super sex vixen in bed.

She may not be the "perfect" woman I'd design (She's only 5'0" for one, but I think I could get used to it) but she stimulates my mind as well as my body, pushes me to improve and try new things, and best of all, she has earned my respect. I can't think of a reason why I'd want to leave.

[Clayton]

necessities:

- healthy: covers all traits like smoking and eating too much,etc. not covers alcohol

- is attracted to me: knows that I fulfill what she wants on a friend-based, conversational-based, and intimately-based level. this is huge for me.

- not psycho/not psycho family: this always leads to problems

- not hugely religions, but not atheist: this is a bitchy one, because I am spiritual but in the agnostic sense. I could not raise my child under any sort of religious denomination, I'm big on showing them everything and letting them pick one for themselves. Any woman that sees Jesus as something largely significant in their lives will not work with me long term.

- outgoing: I am outgoing in public situations, but have always found the one-on-one conversation to be a stressful and awkward situation. someone who I can just easily talk with for a long time on lots of stuff (not just what happened that day) is big with me. because i am really bad at generating discussion out of thin air without coming across and talking for the sake of eliminating dead air.

so, those said, i'm going to enjoy a lot of my life being single. this much, I don't mind. I am the shy type, I get along well by myself. It's sad in the sense that something as simple as "lets go for lunch" could get me dates with lots of girls, but they will usually end there and I'm not the one to deal with suffering through multiple failed dating encounters to find that one-in-one hundred girl. lastly, I've just had a hard time making relationships with girls who i know I will break up with eventually. does anyone else see problems in that regard?

Oh well. Single woot.

[SoloAJ]

Addendum to my post:

Applicant should have a great amount of passion. Perhaps even more than I can handle. It got to the point where my ex just didn't seem passionate toward me at all. The sex got to a point where she seemed to just not care...almost mechanical...just to appease me

Obviously these should have been signs something was wrong, but I was a first-timer in a relationship and didn't know better I guess.

But we never fooled around with any form of passion in the final months....making out or anything.

So that is a BIG must for me in the future. Either they need to be freaky enough in the sack to convey passion for sex....or they need to have enough passion for me to show it to me so I don't have to wonder what the hell is wrong.

I am a passionate passionate man.

http://record.wustl.edu/archive/2001/02-09-01/photos/drew.jpg

[7ontheline]

SoloAJ,

I wish you luck, but a super-passionate woman who is into romantic idealism sounds like a recipe for ungodly drama. Plus you want emotional independence/stability? Yeah. . .not so likely. Maybe I'm just too pragmatic, but your combination sounds impossible to me. I assume you are pretty young? (No offense meant.)

[Peter McDermott]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Does not derive her happiness from me
3) Not clingy


[/ QUOTE ]
These are both excellent points, and both deal breakers for me. I hate women who feel as though something is wrong if I'm not around to amuse or entertain them.

[ QUOTE ]

5) Intelegent


[/ QUOTE ]
Heh.

[theBruiser500]

The biggest turn on for me is when a girl makes of me (possibly using sarcasm!). I think all the girls I've liked have been very smart but I could be tricked by some combination of energy and playfullness and probably be even happier.

[theBruiser500]

As far as being intelligent goes it's not importnat for me to be able t talk about lofty philisophical topics, in fact I detest doing that with almost everyone... but just joking around on everyday topics, people connect and joke around on mundane topics on different levels, and it's super obvious and feels good for both me and the the other person when we are on the same wavelength.

[whiskeytown]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Smart as a whip
2) Looks really good in jeans and a sweatshirt, and likes to dress that way
3) Really into music and art
4) Genuinely sweet, caring person
5) High tolerance for eccentricity
6) Spectacular in the sack

[/ QUOTE ]

all of the above here - (we're all eccentrics here) -

and given a choice, not a dealbreaker, but I'll take taller over shorter - (6'3" here)

rb

[Pete H]

1) Female
2) Sucks [censored]

1st one isn't mandatory

Seriously I've never bothered to think what would be my ideal woman as I don't think she exists and even if she would exist there'd be like 0.00001% chance to ever meet her.

NP: Malevolent Creation - Captured

[SoNo41]

"I've dated dumb girls and girls of average intelligence. The two smart girls I've dated were the best relationships by far. Religion ruined the one of those that got serious which is why "not religious" is on my list. "

Reason no.1 I am happy I don't live in the U.S. - don't have to worry about being constantly confronted with religion. whew!

[Fast Food Knight]

Oooh, not religious, that is a great one that I left off. I really could not spend the rest of my life with someone who really believes there was some sort of savior who created us and cares about all our beliefs and actions. Goo.

[Go_Blue88]

she's gotta be sarcastic---that always makes things fun.

n she's gotta have a unique hot physical attribute...if she's just plain hot then after dating her fer a few months i'll get bored of her. maybe a better way to put that is it'd be cool if she's exotic in some way.

[SoloAJ]

[ QUOTE ]
SoloAJ,

I wish you luck, but a super-passionate woman who is into romantic idealism sounds like a recipe for ungodly drama. Plus you want emotional independence/stability? Yeah. . .not so likely. Maybe I'm just too pragmatic, but your combination sounds impossible to me. I assume you are pretty young? (No offense meant.)

[/ QUOTE ]

7,

Yeah, I'm 21 and have only had one relationship. You're spot on with all of your assessment. I realize that it is a pretty awkward and unrealistic approach.....

but that said, this is my IDEAL woman. That doesn't mean I won't be happy with less. I think half of the people here wouldn't be happy with less than their ideal woman, so they're going to stay single and such.

I was really really happy in my relationship that just ended (for most of it) and she actually embodied very few of what I described in my ideal woman.

:Shrug: I am pretty tolerant and compromising because of my "movie-like" hope. Luckily I can bend and bend and not care. Whatever.

And no offense taken. I'm young and ignorant, it is just the truth /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
but that said, this is my IDEAL woman. That doesn't mean I won't be happy with less. I think half of the people here wouldn't be happy with less than their ideal woman, so they're going to stay single and such.

I was really really happy in my relationship that just ended (for most of it) and she actually embodied very few of what I described in my ideal woman.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure I'm screwed on finding a mate. I had someone who met every criteria for my perfect mate(except non-religious but that was added after). I've tried to date since, but nobody comes even remotely close to comparing.

[The X-Factor]

Honestly in an ideal woman there are quite a few things I would like.

First, I wouldnt need some big brested porn star like girl like some of you may think. I would like a giel that is similar to a Mandy Moore or Amanda Bynes type. Sweet girl next door I can bring home to mom type. Def. not an over weight woman although I wouldnt mind a "thick" girl just not someone who is fat, there is a difference.

Personality is huge for me to. I have a very different one and I tend to be loud and center of attention type guy so I need someone who can handle that. I also can be very emotional at times and I take everything to heart most of the time. I need someone that could handle that and be caring enough to handle that as well. I would like someone that is ok with me playing poker and going to casinos every now and again and even come along and support me. I also need a woman that is comfortable with herself in the bedroom and knows how to communicate and work that body.
I also need a girl that would rather talk about things if there is a problem rather than start yelling and causing a big fight. I dont ever raise my voice so I dont think anyone should raise theirs at me. And last and prolly the most important is just someone I can hold a good conversation with all the time be it at dinner or while we are cuddling in the bed or on the couch.

I'm sure there may be some things I left out but thats ok because I think I got what I needed to out of here.

X

[Dids]

The mysoginy in this thread is starting to get uncomfortable.

[iambusto]

1) Does not have kids, does not want kids (non negotiable. I cant stand kids, dont want to have anything to do with kids).

2) Maintains good credit (financially responsible), has a job, has at least a college education.

3) Good in bed.

4) Being attractive is a bonus.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

my last girlfriend... I screwed that one up too... yet another bad beat in life of B_B

[nath]

Oh yeah, I should have added to my list "won't lie to me constantly" and "won't start [censored] my roommates as soon as I leave town".

Those really killed the last one, although it took me a while to realize them.

I've only been in a few relationships, and none of them lasted very long, so what I've posted is partly out of experience, partly what attracts me to women in general, and partly what I think I could see myself spending time and life with, long-term.

[JOEL_]

If you picture your ideal woman in your head,then you will never find her.
In todays modern competitive struggles,everything is more complicated.
Surely it must be mutual between the man and the woman.So the ideal woman would be a woman who finds you the man ideal.So the questions one should be asking oneself should go along the lines of what kind of woman would find me ideal as I am.If you don't like the answers some change is needed.

[SoloAJ]

JOEL,

I get the impression you and others still think that not finding your ideal women is a problem. Who cares? You can be happy with tons of people. Talking about needing to be the ideal man for a certain woman is a bit silly in my opinion becuase there are many women who would be happy with you despite the fact you aren't their "ideal."

Meh.

[blackize]

A thought occurred to me after reading JOEL_'s post earlier.

Men require a woman more like their ideal woman to be happy. It is hard wired into women to settle down, therefore they will take what they can get in the form of a mate. A man is hardwired to move from flower to flower so to speak. He will require something closer to his ideal than a woman.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
The mysoginy in this thread is starting to get uncomfortable.

[/ QUOTE ]

What misogyny? What's misogyny to you?

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
The mysoginy in this thread is starting to get uncomfortable.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's particularly misogynistic about it? Most of the perspectives seem fairly reasonable to me, and it's nothing compared to the Brandy thread or the Howard Beale AAMP thread in OOT. I think you're a bit too sensitive.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
A man is hardwired to move from flower to flower so to speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is more of a very convenient to believe theory than proven scientific fact.

Ancient man moved in tight social groups, which belies the idea that the males freely moved about, spreading their seed.

[shemp]

Legs with

1) Feet. On. The. Bottom.

and...



just trying to help.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The mysoginy in this thread is starting to get uncomfortable.

[/ QUOTE ]

What misogyny? What's misogyny to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]

A man is hardwired to move from flower to flower so to speak.
[ QUOTE ]

I think this is more of a very convenient to believe theory than proven scientific fact.

Ancient man moved in tight social groups, which belies the idea that the males freely moved about, spreading their seed.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, I shouldn't have represented it as fact. There is a lot of evidence to support the idea though: women outnumber men, it's the best way to make sure the strongest genes are passed on, and the high likelihood of women dying during childhood in the past.

I think there is a lot of truth to it. It answers the question that pops up all, "WTF how did HE end up with HER?"

[JOEL_]

I believe if something that your sharing with someone else is ideal for you, but not for them,sooner rather than later,it will cease to continue ideal for you.

[Dids]

I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[Josem]

1) Lol @ a discussion about "Ideal woman" having someone even mention "Golda Meir."

2) Ideal woman = someone to trust & respect.

2a) Trust = reliable, not crazy, has good judgement

2b) Respect = intelligent and has character* and ambition/drive.


Essentially, someone like me. Modesty is also helpful.


(*I am frustrated with women I've been out with who just seem to float through life. That's not the least bit interesting)

[Fast Food Knight]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. For starters, all you guys that are saying you don't want your women to be smart because you can just "talk about that kind of smart stuff with your friends." This screams to me that you don't view women as your equal (and I use "equal" loosely because I strongly believe that there are many differences in men and women which makes us "complements" more than "equals"). I cannot imagine having a sig other that does not have the ability to discuss absolutely anything with me. Sure, we definitely teach each other things, but I, nor he, would never assume that a topic is "way over" the other's head. A relationship like that would be incredibly boring, imo.

[SoloAJ]

If nothing else, it wouldn't be an intellectual relationship.

I don't think people are terrible for saying that, but at the same time it makes no sense to me. I wouldn't want to only be able to talk about "The O.C." with a girl....

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2- I don't think I could ever marry somebody who was republican.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Dids. A big reason is because in the current political climate, supporting Republicans requires pretty huge blinders.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that criticizing Republicans is different from supporting Democrats. I largely detest the current administration, but would never under any circumstances vote for any of the Democrats who are likely to get the nomination because I think they are highly likely to be far worse.

[ QUOTE ]
However, to say that the Republicans who currently hold power are holding to these ideals seems like a stretch. By definition, a "liberal" thinker is going to be more open to new ideas and discussion than a "conservative."

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this violently contradictory to Dids's opening point here? His position is essentially that he's sufficiently intolerant of Republican views that he couldn't marry one. That isn't exactly consonant with the traditional liberal ideal of being "open to new ideas."

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mean to single out other posters, but something guids posted in another thread was very interesting to me. He was going on about hating liberals who hate America and insult the country and stating that America was the greatest country in the world. Blah blah blah. It just seemed so juvenile. Greatest country in the world? Lol. Who thinks like that? I enjoy living in the U.S., I enjoy the fact that it is the pre-eminent cultural, economic, and military power in the world. I'd like it to stay that way, and criticizing certain aspects of the country/government is the way to improvement instead of stagnation.

[/ QUOTE ]

If "great" is the same as "preeminent cultural, economic and military power" (and I think it is quite similar; at least, that's kinda how I define "great") then your statement makes zero sense because you essentially agree with guids. Admittedly, I didn't read his premise post, but it seems to me from your rendition that you and he aren't far off on this point, if not in full agreement.

I'm libertarian/republican, and could easily have married a lefty. Easily. My own view is that any subject should be fair game for debate (including socially radioactive subjects such as whether there are innate intelligence differences between races and whether or not public schools should exist in this country). Contrary to what you guys seem to think, I believe the modern American left has done more to shut down debate in this country than any other modern political force. Hate speech codes are the brainchild of the left, not the right.

It seems to me that excluding an entire class of people from marriage partners on the bases of political viewpoints is essentially the definition of closed-minded. Putting a finer point on it, I would do the same with respect to strict religionists of every stripe, but I'd leave the field open to anyone who didn't get direct instruction from a higher power.

Would either of you guys marry a Muslim?

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I quite agree with you as a matter of preference. The three or four women I've been madly in love with have all been quite smart (and, feeding into my other post, the smartest was an insane religious fundamentalist who I punted after she drew a knife on me one night). But I don't think guys who tend to dislike smart women are misogynistic -- so long as it's a matter of marriage preference, there's nothing more broadly social about that observation and misogyny isn't even in play.

[Dids]

"But I don't think guys who tend to dislike smart women are misogynistic"

I think it's hard not to find some misogyny in somebody who finds their ideal relationship one where they're superior to their wife/gf. If that's the case, you're not looking for a relationship, you're looking for a serving wench you get to [censored], and that's just amazingly demeaning to me.

Beyond that, this thread has contained the basic suggestion "if a woman is smart she is crazy and a pain in the ass" which is just flatly stupid and insulting.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's hard not to find some misogyny in somebody who finds their ideal relationship one where they're superior to their wife/gf. If that's the case, you're not looking for a relationship, you're looking for a serving wench you get to [censored], and that's just amazingly demeaning to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I reject the paradigm that "smarter" is necessarily "superior." Suppose I married Christie Brinkley. And suppose further that I'm smarter than she is but she's much hotter, more poised, and more likeable than I am. Who is "superior"? I think it fair to assess smartness, but translating that into "superiority" is a pretty substantial leap for you to make here.

I also don't think a preference for a not-as-smart woman (even on that metric rather than "superiority") translates into misogyny. The statement "I like women who aren't as smart as I am" isn't at all the same as "Women are dumber than men." The former isn't misogynistic while the latter is.

[ QUOTE ]
Beyond that, this thread has contained the basic suggestion "if a woman is smart she is crazy and a pain in the ass" which is just flatly stupid and insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

It has been my experience that smart people of both sexes often use their intelligence to create problems for themselves, e.g. Anacardo. We live in a society where women bear the larger burden of raising children and men bear the larger burden of generating income for the family. If high IQ generally leads to more income, then I can see a legitimate bias here: a woman is willing to put up with the pain-in-the-ass consequences of smartness in a man because it also translates into a higher standard of living.

I happen to love smart women and am delighted that I married one. But I don't know that marrying someone smart has made my life any easier, and I can well understand that others can make different reasonable choices in this regard without looking down on womanhood.

['Chair]

I can't remember where I heard/read it, but contempt for the S/O is the number 1 killer in a relationship.

Unfortunately I still seem to see this behavior in <u>a lot</u> of my friends' relationships where the guy regards himself (via actions, comments, and/or general day to day behavior) as "better/smarter/whatever" than his SO. Compounding the problem is the girl "just taking it and accepting it", which only serves to prolong the failed-relationship (months even YEARS) longer than it would have lasted had the girl had more self-respect/confidence.

SideNote: Few times have I seen it the other way around. And I feel that the lopsided-(sp?)-ness here can be directly attributed to the generalized 'nature' of females. The ratio is likely to increase with time (hell, think about a hundred years ago...'rule of thumb' for example) but it will be rather slow. As for the girls who do hold themselves as the superior today, well I feel that this is more a product of 'nurture'.




That said...

a) I also believe that the intelligence level of a couple cannot be too uneven...

and

b) are we going to rule out the S&amp;M camp? I believe (from what I've read/heard) that these couples (ones that are successful) likely have the highest respect for one another. I wonder what the males in these types of relationships would put down when asked to create a list of attributes to describe your ideal woman?

[EvanJC]

i think i'm looking for the female version of me.

if i ever found this person, undoubtedly the results would be disastrous.

[The Yugoslavian]

Smart women are where it's at, yo.

Yugoslav

[fluffpop62]

[ QUOTE ]

SideNote: Few times have I seen it the other way around. And I feel that the lopsided-(sp?)-ness here can be directly attributed to the generalized 'nature' of females. The ratio is likely to increase with time (hell, think about a hundred years ago...'rule of thumb' for example) but it will be rather slow. As for the girls who do hold themselves as the superior today, well I feel that this is more a product of 'nurture'.


[/ QUOTE ]
QFT.
I gave up swearing and being mean to my bf for lent, and last night at dinner (with his parents, grandparents and aunt and uncle), i was kind of mean. so, i covered my mouth and said oh shoot! i gave up being mean to david for lent! and his mom said, oh honey, you don't want to do that. and his aunt said, so young, and so naive; there's no point in ever giving that up.
SO, I was raised in a matriarchal family, and clearly so was he because he is attracted to me and i am like his mom and his aunt!!! while i'll concede that david is more intelligent then i am, i think that overall compatibility is the key to a successful relationship, and who you're compatible with will depend a lot on how you were raised.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]


b) are we going to rule out the S&amp;M camp? I believe (from what I've read/heard) that these couples (ones that are successful) likely have the highest respect for one another. I wonder what the males in these types of relationships would put down when asked to create a list of attributes to describe your ideal woman?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not speaking from experience, but bedroom behavior and everyday behavior are pretty [censored] different. I don't really see much reason to suspect that there's going to be a strong correlation between people who like to be dominant in the bedroom necessarily and people who want dominance in all facets of their lives.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is saying that in this thread?

['Chair]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


b) are we going to rule out the S&amp;M camp? I believe (from what I've read/heard) that these couples (ones that are successful) likely have the highest respect for one another. I wonder what the males in these types of relationships would put down when asked to create a list of attributes to describe your ideal woman?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not speaking from experience, but bedroom behavior and everyday behavior are pretty [censored] different. I don't really see much reason to suspect that there's going to be a strong correlation between people who like to be dominant in the bedroom necessarily and people who want dominance in all facets of their lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) I was semi-joking w/ the comment about S&amp;M
b) I agree with you on the 'bedroom and everyday behavior'...for most ppl.
c) There was a very good/detailed thread in OOT about a year ago where a poster explained S&amp;M and answered questions...if I weren't so lazy, I would link it.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is saying that in this thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, guids had this to say: "Ill take a girl that can distiguish the difference between a gucci or a prada shoe, rather than plato or socrates." While admittedly imprecise, Dids's characterization of it is more than fair. Of course, knowing the distinction between Plato and Socrates is a function of education, not IQ, but those are pretty clearly correlated.

[Josem]

i don't think equal "intelligence" is enough for a genuine partnership - i think it needs a more amorphous concept of equal "power" within the relationship.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Beyond that, this thread has contained the basic suggestion "if a woman is smart she is crazy and a pain in the ass" which is just flatly stupid and insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am forced to point out that, with all the women I have ever even known on a greater than superficial level, the most intelligent have, with only a couple of exceptions, one being my sister, been the nuttiest. This correlation does not seem nearly so prevalent in men I have known. I really have no idea what this means or whether it has any basis in reality at all, but it is my experience.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Beyond that, this thread has contained the basic suggestion "if a woman is smart she is crazy and a pain in the ass" which is just flatly stupid and insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am forced to point out that, with all the women I have ever even known on a greater than superficial level, the most intelligent have, with only a couple of exceptions, one being my sister, been the nuttiest. This correlation does not seem nearly so prevalent in men I have known. I really have no idea what this means or whether it has any basis in reality at all, but it is my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expanding a bit on the point I made above, I think some people tend to overintellectualize and create problems out of nothing. High IQ tends to accelerate this tendency. One of the smartest guys I ever met at MIT (four degrees in four years, straight As across the board in every discipline) could talk himself out of normalcy on almost any romance issue. And the smartest woman I ever dated was an absolutely insane loon. One night, we got in a minor fight and she stalked out. I figured she'd be back and went to sleep. Well, I was right, but when she came back, she interpreted my sleep as a sign that I wasn't torn up about the fight, and in turn that I didn't care about our relationship. That set off an apoplectic fit in which she raced into my kitchen and attacked me with a steak knife.

Thankfully, she was 5'0", 90 lbs. and it was not too difficult to grab her wrist, whereupon she dropped the knife and accused me of hitting her.

Needless to say, the relationship didn't last long after that.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
i've dated some very smart women and they were all whack jobs. i've also dated some not so smart ones and they were the ones who best suited my tastes for what a girlfriend should be like. i remember reading an article about how women with advanced degree's have difficult times finding husbands, makes a lot of sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a deeply-regretted, longstanding passion for whack jobs. Every woman I've ever been really passionate about, or even clicked with, has had some serious problems. (Please note: this is almost invariably before I've heard anything about said problems, or have any reason to suspect them; I am convinced that I can simply smell crazy, and that to me crazy smells delicious.)

Ph. D candidates: Forward headshots please.

[Nate.]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't remember where I heard/read it, but contempt for the S/O is the number 1 killer in a relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blink. Interesting chapter.

--Nate

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is saying that in this thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, guids had this to say: "Ill take a girl that can distiguish the difference between a gucci or a prada shoe, rather than plato or socrates." While admittedly imprecise, Dids's characterization of it is more than fair. Of course, knowing the distinction between Plato and Socrates is a function of education, not IQ, but those are pretty clearly correlated.

[/ QUOTE ]


education and IQ arent really all that correlated imo. And you guys are over sensitive if you think Im being mysoginistic. What I said is a reflection on what I want in a woman, I dont want to have to discuss philisophy, politics, etc with her, hell, with anyone for that matter, unless it is anonymous like these forums. I also said I dont want her to be academic, you can have two equally bright chicks, one knows the difference between the shoes, and one the difference between the philosophers, all Im saying is that one of the girls interests (maybe not shoes per se) line up with mine.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
"But I don't think guys who tend to dislike smart women are misogynistic"

I think it's hard not to find some misogyny in somebody who finds their ideal relationship one where they're superior to their wife/gf. If that's the case, you're not looking for a relationship, you're looking for a serving wench you get to [censored], and that's just amazingly demeaning to me.

Beyond that, this thread has contained the basic suggestion "if a woman is smart she is crazy and a pain in the ass" which is just flatly stupid and insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]



Why are you equating intelligence with emmotions? You are basically saying that if you have an emmotional connection with someone, and love them, that unless they are on the same plain IQ-wise, that its demeaning. Its not. Love has to do with the feelings you have about a person no matter what difference of IQ etc you have.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find the whole "smart women = bad" thing really troubling, that's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is saying that in this thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, guids had this to say: "Ill take a girl that can distiguish the difference between a gucci or a prada shoe, rather than plato or socrates." While admittedly imprecise, Dids's characterization of it is more than fair. Of course, knowing the distinction between Plato and Socrates is a function of education, not IQ, but those are pretty clearly correlated.

[/ QUOTE ]


education and IQ arent really all that correlated imo. And you guys are over sensitive if you think Im being mysoginistic. What I said is a reflection on what I want in a woman, I dont want to have to discuss philisophy, politics, etc with her, hell, with anyone for that matter, unless it is anonymous like these forums. I also said I dont want her to be academic, you can have two equally bright chicks, one knows the difference between the shoes, and one the difference between the philosophers, all Im saying is that one of the girls interests (maybe not shoes per se) line up with mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I've been arguing to Dids that there's nothing misogynistic about the position that you don't like smart women, even if that proposition is true. I don't think wanting a woman who isn't quite as smart as oneself isn't even slightly misogynstic.

There are plenty of smart women that aren't well-educated. There are almost no well-educated women that aren't smart. What the precise correlation is, I have no idea.

[frostbrn]

1. Smart: I disagree with the smart women haters here. I've been with some smart girls, and some not so smart ones. This one is huge for me.

2. Attractive to me: So I'm to the point now where I don't care what anyone else thinks about how she looks, as long as I'm attracted to her I will be happy.

3. Independent: This is probably the deal breaker. If she doesn't have her own hobbies, friends, and life then it's not gonna happen for me. IMO girls who don't have this are a lot more likely to be clingy and cause you problems down the road.

4. Drinks socially: I find that I'm really craving a woman who can appreciate good alcohol (I don't care if it's wine, beer, or liquor). This one isn't as big, but it would be a huge +.

5. Fully understands me: I think I'm a complex guy, so when a woman can really "get me" it's very refreshing.

6. Surprises me: This one is also big, I love new things and surprises. If she can keep things exciting (and not just sexually), then I'm probably sold on her.

[guids]

There are almost no well-educated women that aren't smart.



I think our definitions of what smart is, differs. Ive met tons of very well education women that cant figure out how to boil water. In fact I went out with a lawyer last night, and some of the things that she brought up floored me at how stupid it was, even though Im sure she is very "book smart", but when it comes to some simple everyday things she was at a loss.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact I went out with a lawyer last night, and some of the things that she brought up floored me at how stupid it was, even though Im sure she is very "book smart", but when it comes to some simple everyday things she was at a loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

TR, please.

[raptor517]

hrm.. ideal woman.. she has to be intelligent enough to understand my weird sense of humor. theres a certain level of attractivelness that must be met as well, but everything on top of that is just gravy. she REALLY needs to be able to be comfortable doing her own thing, hanging out with her own friends, etc, because i need my space a lot. amazing in bed isnt even all that necessary as my sex drive isnt the most important thing in my life. adequate is perfectly acceptable. she needs to have her own goals and motivations, and not center her life around me. thats a huge downer. i dno im sure there are other things.

[Anacardo]

I'm glad somebody likes dumb girls. Takes 'em off the market and other dudes out of competition for the remainder. Dumb girls need love too; might as well be from whoever wants 'em.

[guids]

Not much to tell, I didnt know here before the other night, but I met up with a bunch of friends for dinner, she was there, hot, and a lawyer (divorce, one of the top at her frim appearently), we hit it off quickly, did a bunch of yip, drank a bunch of cocktails, went to the strip club. I know the door guy, so we got to skirt the line, but the guy who takes the cash I didnt know, so I tell him "Im industry, roger the door guy can vouch", so I didnt have to pay a cover, guy says "ok, you guys sign your name here", she says "but, Im not industry?!?!", looked at her with my mouth wide open, then made her pay her own way in.

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
However, to say that the Republicans who currently hold power are holding to these ideals seems like a stretch. By definition, a "liberal" thinker is going to be more open to new ideas and discussion than a "conservative."

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this violently contradictory to Dids's opening point here? His position is essentially that he's sufficiently intolerant of Republican views that he couldn't marry one. That isn't exactly consonant with the traditional liberal ideal of being "open to new ideas."


[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, did you think about this carefully? You're arguing that I'm intolerant because I won't tolerate intolerance.

[ QUOTE ]


If "great" is the same as "preeminent cultural, economic and military power" (and I think it is quite similar; at least, that's kinda how I define "great") then your statement makes zero sense because you essentially agree with guids. Admittedly, I didn't read his premise post, but it seems to me from your rendition that you and he aren't far off on this point, if not in full agreement.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is simply that there's nothing wrong with wanting your country to do well but that there's no such thing as a "greatest" country. I know it doesn't sound like a big difference, but I think it's the difference between patriotism and jingoism.

[ QUOTE ]


I'm libertarian/republican, and could easily have married a lefty. Easily. My own view is that any subject should be fair game for debate (including socially radioactive subjects such as whether there are innate intelligence differences between races and whether or not public schools should exist in this country). Contrary to what you guys seem to think, I believe the modern American left has done more to shut down debate in this country than any other modern political force. Hate speech codes are the brainchild of the left, not the right.

It seems to me that excluding an entire class of people from marriage partners on the bases of political viewpoints is essentially the definition of closed-minded. Putting a finer point on it, I would do the same with respect to strict religionists of every stripe, but I'd leave the field open to anyone who didn't get direct instruction from a higher power.

Would either of you guys marry a Muslim?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again you're taking your spin on things and ignoring the real message of my post. This is why I don't particularly like discussing politics on the internet - it's too easy to polarize everything. I am not against Republicans per se. I am against social conservatives because of their intolerance and unbearable righteousness. Of course not all conservatives are like that, to claim otherwise is just stupid. Because of the actions of the current administration, I believe those who support the Republican party (as it is currently being run, not the general principles behind it) are willfully ignorant or seriously heartless. I don't really consider myself the stereotypical "bleeding heart" liberal (I suppose you may disagree) but I think to deny that there are serious issues with the neo-conservative slant that Bush and co. have taken is really idiotic. I have no problem with a rational, serious discussion, I just find that the sub-group of Republicans I'm talking about are not interested.

As for your last question, I don't really see the point. Yes, I would marry a (non-fanatical, moderate) Muslim. I married a Christian. What's the difference to me? I don't believe in either.

[Wilco23]

The ideal woman is the one who makes the hair on your arms stand up a little when she's around. She's the one who won't leave your thoughts after she's left the room. She's the one you wake up thinking about in the morning and go to bed dreaming about at night.

It's just that simple.

[guids]

that lasts for about 6 weeks.

[Ribsauce]

[ QUOTE ]
http://f.screensavers.com/OMS/img/535/curbyourenthusiasmss_215.gif

Cheryl Hines...her character's personality on Curb Your Enthusiasim

[/ QUOTE ]So right. How have they not done a shower scene with her or something? I don't care if she is 45 and I'm 24 I would marry her tomorrow

[bonds]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3483/intromaura01ww9.jpg

In character, of course.

[Bond18]

My girlfriend.

Now please dear put down the knife, i typed what you wanted.

[Hass]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I just want to add that I think a lot of the guys who have posted in this thread are going to die single.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just shy of 22 and have come to the realization that this is a very likely outcome for me And after watching my friends get married, isn't such a bad thing. .

[/ QUOTE ]

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
Not much to tell, I didnt know here before the other night, but I met up with a bunch of friends for dinner, she was there, hot, and a lawyer (divorce, one of the top at her frim appearently), we hit it off quickly, did a bunch of yip, drank a bunch of cocktails, went to the strip club. I know the door guy, so we got to skirt the line, but the guy who takes the cash I didnt know, so I tell him "Im industry, roger the door guy can vouch", so I didnt have to pay a cover, guy says "ok, you guys sign your name here", she says "but, Im not industry?!?!", looked at her with my mouth wide open, then made her pay her own way in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus, that is idiotic. Point to guids.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, to say that the Republicans who currently hold power are holding to these ideals seems like a stretch. By definition, a "liberal" thinker is going to be more open to new ideas and discussion than a "conservative."

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this violently contradictory to Dids's opening point here? His position is essentially that he's sufficiently intolerant of Republican views that he couldn't marry one. That isn't exactly consonant with the traditional liberal ideal of being "open to new ideas."

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, did you think about this carefully? You're arguing that I'm intolerant because I won't tolerate intolerance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because I disagree with the premise that Republicans are generally intolerant. See below.

[ QUOTE ]
I am not against Republicans per se. I am against social conservatives because of their intolerance and unbearable righteousness. Of course not all conservatives are like that, to claim otherwise is just stupid. Because of the actions of the current administration, I believe those who support the Republican party (as it is currently being run, not the general principles behind it) are willfully ignorant or seriously heartless. I don't really consider myself the stereotypical "bleeding heart" liberal (I suppose you may disagree) but I think to deny that there are serious issues with the neo-conservative slant that Bush and co. have taken is really idiotic. I have no problem with a rational, serious discussion, I just find that the sub-group of Republicans I'm talking about are not interested.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm revolted by at least some of what the current administration is doing, but I generally believe that the alternative (i.e. a Kerry administration) would have been worse. That's obviously so incapable of proof that it isn't worth debating; I guess my response here is to suggest that being a Republican isn't synonymous with affirmative support of the administration. It's a judgement that it may well be the least crappy of all the available options.

Generally, there seems to be a significant current of anger and intolerance among the left. As a justification, the left characterize it as an intolerance of intolerance, but I think that's not a defensible position. If I were to reprise the debate that Herrnstein and Miller raised in The Bell Curve at an upper-East side party, I'd be a pariah -- and likely be tossed into the street, because the left views one side of that debate as absolutely poisonous. I regard a willingess to discuss the issue as being reflective of tolerance; and I generally believe that the libertarian right is far more willing to try to get to a correct answer on that and similar issues than is the left.

I can fully agree that the right who base their beliefs primarily on religion can and often are closed-minded and intolerant. But Dids' statement was that he couldn't marry a Republican. That is a different, much broader, and much more intolerant position.

[Soh]

Cute girls who make me feel like a KING.

[mbillie1]

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend.

Now please dear put down the knife, i typed what you wanted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we dating the same girl?

On a serious note, I want a girl who is:

As smart as or (preferably) smarter than me
Intellectual
Classy (dress/behavior/language/etc)
Good libido (sex matters)
Assertive/self-confident
Attractive
NOT clingy or needy or whiny

[JuntMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://f.screensavers.com/OMS/img/535/curbyourenthusiasmss_215.gif

Cheryl Hines...her character's personality on Curb Your Enthusiasim

[/ QUOTE ]So right. How have they not done a shower scene with her or something? I don't care if she is 45 and I'm 24 I would marry her tomorrow

[/ QUOTE ]

I think she's only 41.

There's a topless pic, Google Images.

[J.C. Gloves]

I think loyalty is the most important characteristic. W/o loyalty you cannot have all of the other traits listed or begin to care about them.

Unless you just wanna be superficial...then go nuts, have fun, enjoy.