JJ Overpair checks on the turn, Q hits river [Archive]

View Full Version : JJ Overpair checks on the turn, Q hits river

DannyOcean_

02-20-2007, 02:53 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($8.90)
BB ($13.65)
UTG ($12.25)
MP ($9.80)
CO ($10.55)
Hero ($14.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.3, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold, MP folds.

Flop: ($3.10) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.5, SB calls $2.50.

Turn: ($8.10) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($8.10) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets $3.1, Hero calls $3.1

Final Pot: $14.20

Is checking the turn ok? I use this line sometimes with an overpair or a set because I've found that sometimes opponents will call a flop bet and river bet after a turn check with TPTK more often than they will a flop bet then turn bet. Once Villian leads on the river, is this a call? I called because I figured villian doesn this more than 25% of the time with worse than JJ, making the call profitable. What do you think?

Marshall28

02-20-2007, 02:58 AM

i really dont like the turn check. your hand is very vulnerable at this point to a heart a 6 or a j, but is still capable of getting value from a pair of 10s.

i think not betting here for value and to protect your hand is a big mistake.

DannyOcean_

02-20-2007, 03:03 AM

I thought about that after this hand was over. I'm always trying to milk the most out of these hands, and it seems like I'm scaring too many people off. It seemed like at the time, the best way to induce a bad hand to get money in was to check behind and then lead the flop. But then again, people always yell 'straightforward against the fishies dammit!' and theyre usually right.

Nick C

02-20-2007, 03:12 AM

Well, Villain didn't let the heavy preflop action scare him off, so in the absence of any read to the contrary, I'm thinking his starting cards were very good, and his flop call does suggest he's got a made hand (although he could just be getting stubborn with AK, I know).

Given preflop, I doubt it's Tx that Villain has, and a flush draw shouldn't be especially likely either. Basically I think the biggest question is whether or not his likely PP is better than yours.

Still, I probably would just put Villain in for his last $5.10 on the turn. If Villain is drawing -- either to overcards or a flush -- you do want to get his money in the pot while you still can. Also, I do think you're committed at this point, and I'm not sure how often Villain is going to let you off easy when he has a hand that beats yours and not get his stack in on the river. (Maybe he'll remain unsure of his QQ and possibly even KK, though, so there is an argument in favor of your play.)

Brian O'Nolan

02-20-2007, 03:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is checking the turn ok? I use this line sometimes with an overpair or a set

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, checking behind with a set here would be awful. This hand, in a reraised pot, with no reads, you should be getting it in on the turn. Maybe check behind if opponent is a real nit, but you'll see AT and worse one pair hands call a turn push often enough.

marvin_1935

02-20-2007, 03:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm always trying to milk the most out of these hands, and it seems like I'm scaring too many people off.

[/ QUOTE ]

this hand isnt strong enough to milk. winning the hand on the turn is a good result.

you don't want to see a A/K/Q on the river as it may help the villain or if it doesn, it will make it hard to extract any further value.

you need to bet for value while it is likely your hand is good AND the villain is likely to call a bet.