4 bet push here with AK, what do u think

[halperin]

what do u guys tihnk of a 4 bet push here? ltos of fold equity, and still 50/50 if called. unless of course if he has aa or kk


Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
UTG: $76.40
MP: $36.95
CO: $52.75
Hero (BTN): $49.25
SB: $52.2
BB: $24.5

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($0.75, 6 players)
UTG calls $0.50, MP folds, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.50</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $6</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $3.50

<font color="black">Flop:</font> T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($13, 2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $8</font>, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $8 returned to SB

<font color="black">Turn:</font> T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif [] ($13, 1 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif [] ($13, 1 players)
No action [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

[Big Poppa Smurf]

general consesus is push or fold ak pre since you won't make enough postflop when you hit to give you good enough odds, and shoving will fold out some hands and have you racing a good portion of the time and you get to see all 5 cards.

[halperin]

so push it even though its a HUGe over bet?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

i believe that's what the consensus here is, yes. i honestly can't remember the last time i've done this though

edit: ok i just checked PT, i haven't been 3bet when i've had ak in a long time, weird

reedit: but yeah calling sucks so push or fold

[Marshall28]

id really base the push on the stats of the villain. if hes raising like less than 15 percent of his hands, ill generally let it go. giving it a call in this situation since u r in position isnt such a terrible play either, after all, if his 3betting range includes aq and aj, you could be in very good shape.

u definitely shouldnt get in the habit of 4bet shoving AK all the time though cuz it will start to get pretty predictable.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

marshall,

obv you don't do it all the time, but it happens pretty rarely at our limits so it's not that huge a deal. And people are generally pretty nitty overall so you can often fold out JJ or QQ and avoid a race. Of course this means when you get called you are generally a bigger dog, so maybe it is best to call in position sometimes so you can collect c-bets from jj/qq and run into aa/kk less?

once you get caught doing this though you can do this with aces and get looked up light

[orange]

there are a few things you can do.

if he has been 3-betting very light/frequent, you can either choose to call with position and shove lots of flops or 4-bet. i typically like the former as 4-betting, your sortve negating position.

anyways, i dont think you should worry about 3-betting too light at 50nl. if he's been doing so, this is a great flop to shove on. alot of his range (if he 3-bets light) are pps/scs/etc. he also typically needs a good hand to call a shove on this flop. we have a gutshot, probably some clean overs, a backdoor flush draw and lots of FE (if hes decent).

now, thats not to say that 4-betting AI pf isnt a bad play. it helps us see all 5 cards/etc. but if he hasnt been 3-betting pf much at all this session, i can find a fold.

so, if he's 3-betting light, you can either 4-bet or call/shove lots of flops (sometimes fold depending on texture). or just fold now if he's in line and tight.

[VPIP100]

I don't think this is a good flop to shove, the only hand that is NOT going to call you is jacks. Even if he 3-bet you light, this is a terrible flop.

[Jouster777]

4-bet push with AK is ok once in a while but only when OOP. Why give up our positional advantage? I like the call preflop.

Flop is usually a fold but not a bad flop to float...you have a gssd + OC's + A/images/graemlins/heart.gif so repping the flush if a 3rd /images/graemlins/heart.gif hits is a reasonable line.

[Gustav]

Calling doesn't look so bad here, given SB's pathetic excuse for a reraise. If he had made a proper raise I'd be more compelled to push.

(FTR, I've made a fair amount of those pushes lately at NL25, and they almost always folded, even when I was positive I'd get called. Only time I did get called was when I did it for the third time against the same guy and he called with AQo. Not much of a samplesize, but pushing does seem to have some merit.)

[Big Poppa Smurf]

It's good to hear that I was pretty off here, I thought all you guys were 4-bet shoving AK but like I said I have pretty much never done it.

[Triggerle]

[ QUOTE ]
It's good to hear that I was pretty off here, I thought all you guys were 4-bet shoving AK but like I said I have pretty much never done it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've done it for a while with quite some success but a situation that comes up this rarely can't really be properly evaluated with our typical sample sizes.

I've kinda stopped doing it after losing something like 6 times in a row to AA/KK but the play is still in the back of my head for when I move up and people start 3-betting really light.

[Bonesy]

[ QUOTE ]
ltos of fold equity, and still 50/50 if called. unless of course if he has aa or kk



[/ QUOTE ]

Unless villain 3bet's light, I doubt you have much FE at all much less lots. I prefer the call in position.