Leaving / Changing tables when you are multi-tabling??

[MSPChris]

If you are multi-tabling micro-stakes games (or any game for that matter) -- when should you switch tables?

I had four 10NL tables open on PokerStars, and took down two monster pots in a row on one of the tables.

I went from the $10 buy-in to over $35 in about 20 minutes.

I took the money and ran!! Later I wondered if that was the right move. I felt like such a huge win in such a short time was pure variance -- so be happy and leave before the laws of averages catch up to my lucky a$$!!

Relatively new to 2p2 -- so i would appreciate some of the collected wisdom, please....

[corsakh]

Don't you worry, variance will catch up to you sooner or later and table chaning is not going to help. I leave the table when:

1) the table dryes out - 3 players left / half the players are shortstacks.
2) I am very deep and I don't feel comforatable at this level.

[SnappyJoe]

You leave the table when:

1) It's -ev to stay
2) If dynamics change, maybe it changes from 6handed to 3handed

You shouldn't leave when:

1) The fish keep giving you their money

[svidrigailov]

It's OK to leave if you're uncomfortable playing deep. (For that to be the case your opponents have to have stacks as well.) However, you should strive to become comfortable with deeper stacks since it's more profitable vs. poor competition.

In many cases leaving when you're winning is a bad idea because it might indicate that you're playing well or your opponents are playing badly, in which case you should stay in the game for as long as you can.

[RollTide77]

In addition to table dynamics like pointed above, I try to set a limit and say "if I drop to this point I'm leaving" that way I can try to ride the wave a bit longer but not lose it all back.

[Phytopath]

My problem is I actually find it difficult to switch tables when they are kinda crappy, when I am playing 6+ tables it is hard to figure out which ones are crappy and to switch them up.

You really shouldn't leave just because you are up, unless you are uncomfortable playing deep, but like others have said you aren't really playing deep unless your opponents also have alot of chips.

[MSPChris]

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is I actually find it difficult to switch tables when they are kinda crappy, when I am playing 6+ tables it is hard to figure out which ones are crappy and to switch them up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that's a big part of the advice I'm looking for. If you are multi-tabling, how can you spot a crappy table?

About leaving the table when "it's -EV to stay": Wouldn't it be -EV to stay if you're the single big stack and the rest of the table is very short-stacked relative to you?

That feels like a situation where there's nowhere to go but down...

[Rollos]

I switch tables when it gets down to three players or when the table turns into a rock garden. But usually when I play there is one or two really bad players that I focus on. So if they leave, then I immediatly leave right after them.

[Hank Scorpio]

I play 12 tables at once at FT and it's hard to find a lot of good tables now. This might be stupid, but I actually look at the player's names at the table. If you see a name that LMAO Owned You that player is good. It's hard to explain. Basically, if a name is formatted nicely it normally means they're good players. An exmaple of a fish would be "michael26273". This isn't always correct, but I find it to be correct a ton. Also, search for a player's name at your table. If he's at 8 tables, he's most likely a solid player. You want to target 1 table players.

Also, don't win a big pot then run. It's cowardly.

[RAHZero]

[ QUOTE ]
I switch tables when it gets down to three players or when the table turns into a rock garden. But usually when I play there is one or two really bad players that I focus on. So if they leave, then I immediatly leave right after them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of people saying this (leaving when the game gets short-handed), and I used to do it too. If the game gets short-handed and the players are all bad, STAY! I've been playing 3-4 handed a lot lately, and it's a goldmine when all you're playing against are 2-3 other fish. Stay until it's HU too if it's just you and a fish.

[MSPChris]

[ QUOTE ]
An exmaple of a fish would be "michael26273". This isn't always correct, but I find it to be correct a ton. Also, search for a player's name at your table. If he's at 8 tables, he's most likely a solid player. You want to target 1 table players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good suggestions -- thank you.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, don't win a big pot then run. It's cowardly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously -- I'm playing to win money. If I start my session with 20min worth of hands that leave me up 500 ptBB, it's Miller Time!!

[SmallPotJeff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, don't win a big pot then run. It's cowardly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously -- I'm playing to win money. If I start my session with 20min worth of hands that leave me up 500 ptBB, it's Miller Time!!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're up 500 ptBB, then 1 of three things are true:
1. You got damn lucky - You're not a particular favorite at this table, you might even be getting the worst of it, but you hit your 2 outer. In this case, feel free to get out while you're still lucky. In fact, next time you shouldn't sit down at all if you're not a favorite.
2. You were a substantial favorite, but you busted all the fish - If all the fish left after you busted them, then the table might have dried up. If the table's gone dry, leave for THAT reason, not because you won money.
3. You were and are still a substantial favorite: If you leave in this case, then it means you don't like money. You like money, don't you? Then what the hell are you doing getting up when you're at this juicy a table?

So, to sum up: Leave if the table's gone dry. Stay if the table's still juicy. And don't even sit down in the first place if the only way you make money is by "being lucky."

[SmallPotJeff]

[ QUOTE ]
I took the money and ran!! ... I felt like such a huge win in such a short time was pure variance -- so be happy and leave before the laws of averages catch up to my lucky a$$!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, just checking, but you're joking about the laws of averages catching up, right? B/c otherwise you're making what's known as the "gambler's fallacy." For example, if someone flips a fair coin four times and it lands heads every time, the gambler's fallacy would be to expect it to be more likely to land tails next time so that the law of averages will catch up.

As I said in another post, if you're winning because you're a favorite, then the best way to make money is to stay at the table. The only time to be afraid of the law of averages is when you're a losing player.

[Michael Fish]

I try to keep an eye on the table average volume in pot on the HUD whilst i'm there. If it drops too low generaly speaking it's time to move on. Obviously check each players stats before you do as one big fish can feed a whole table and you don't want to miss out.

I'm fairly selective about going shorthanded at tables pretty much a case by case basis, but as Rah already said it can be a serious money spinner.

[ QUOTE ]
I play 12 tables

[/ QUOTE ] - Fair play too you, that's pretty [censored] hardcore mate!

I just like to keep huge stacks at the tables. Makes me play better. I do play long sessions tho.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
About leaving the table when "it's -EV to stay": Wouldn't it be -EV to stay if you're the single big stack and the rest of the table is very short-stacked relative to you?

That feels like a situation where there's nowhere to go but down...

[/ QUOTE ]

...unless you bust the small stacks and go up. You obviously won't increase your stack at the same percentage, but you still have the opportunity to play poker. Think about the next biggest stack relative to the stakes. If you have 200BB and the rest of the table has 100BB, it's still a good opportunity to win money. In fact, it has nothing to do with how big your stack is - just how big you perceive your stack to be. Some people play worse on a big stack because they start to gambool it up more. If this is you, then leave when you have a big stack.

I wrote an article (http://westernpoker.org/articles/whentoleave.htm) on this a while back.

[PietM]

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is I actually find it difficult to switch tables when they are kinda crappy, when I am playing 6+ tables it is hard to figure out which ones are crappy and to switch them up.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't figure out which tables are crappy or which are good, you're playing too many tables, IMO.

I quit a table when the last fish leaves and I'm stuck with the rest of the nits. Why wait until maybe a new fish joins if I can get 'm at another table?

Also, don't leave when you're up, unless you're really uncomfortable playing a big stack and your up against other big stacks (as has been noted by others).

[Zagga]

I play 25NL and usually leave when my stacks get above 40. This is becouse I Really find it hard to play deepstacked and I quickly end up donking up all my profit again. Is this smart or should I stau?

[MSPChris]

[ QUOTE ]
I play 25NL and usually leave when my stacks get above 40. This is becouse I Really find it hard to play deepstacked and I quickly end up donking up all my profit again. Is this smart or should I stau?

[/ QUOTE ]

From a few of the replies I've seen -- this is a common problem -- especially for relatively new 2p2'ers that want to improve.

I agree that deep-stacked play is tough -- that was probably the main reason I left the table described in the OP.

Would anyone like to start a new thread -- talking about deep-stack play? Maybe you could xref this thread....

[thac]

Grunch,

I usually stay at tables (I 6-12 table on PokerStars) until one of two things happens:

1 - My fish get busted and leave the table.

- Usually, this encourages more regulars to come about because the pot size is usually larger, and the VP$IP is usually larger since he's in almost every pot and donking around. This will make a lot of regulars sign up for the waiting list, and when they don't know that they're sitting in the fish' seat, they'll stay and wait for big pots. This decreases the action on the table and makes it less profitable to play.

2 - There are too many shortstacks

- If one player wins a 200 bb pot against two mid-stack fish, they'll only end up with about 30 bbs, and they usually don't reload after they bust. So you'll find yourself with marginal hands where they'll be going all-in and you'll find yourself with 2nd pair or unimproved overs .. it's just a bunch of marginal spots that increases variance. I usually get up and look for fullstacked fish.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt like such a huge win in such a short time was pure variance -- so be happy and leave before the laws of averages catch up to my lucky a$$!!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's all one big session, baby. Changing tables has no bearing on future performance. If you think you're better than the other players at the table, have as big a stack as possible.

I generally change when it gets down to 2 other players and we're all TAG. If at least one other player is bad and has close to a full buy-in, I'll keep playing until all the bad players are gone.

[svidrigailov]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I switch tables when it gets down to three players or when the table turns into a rock garden. But usually when I play there is one or two really bad players that I focus on. So if they leave, then I immediatly leave right after them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of people saying this (leaving when the game gets short-handed), and I used to do it too. If the game gets short-handed and the players are all bad, STAY! I've been playing 3-4 handed a lot lately, and it's a goldmine when all you're playing against are 2-3 other fish. Stay until it's HU too if it's just you and a fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. Although it may not be practical if you're 12-tabling or whatever, playing HU & 3-4 handed can be really profitable. It's also great hand practice in terms of hand reading, manipulating image, etc. Although I'm not particularly good playing short, sticking around when the table begins to break has been a great learning experience so far.

[svidrigailov]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play 25NL and usually leave when my stacks get above 40. This is becouse I Really find it hard to play deepstacked and I quickly end up donking up all my profit again. Is this smart or should I stau?

[/ QUOTE ]

From a few of the replies I've seen -- this is a common problem -- especially for relatively new 2p2'ers that want to improve.

I agree that deep-stacked play is tough -- that was probably the main reason I left the table described in the OP.

Would anyone like to start a new thread -- talking about deep-stack play? Maybe you could xref this thread....

[/ QUOTE ]

There's some really good stuff in the archives. Was thinking about this thread (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1133124&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1) but couldn't find it yesterday. It's obviously not exhaustive but ML4L and others mention some important concepts.

[fsista]

You leave when all the really bad fish are gone.

You join tables with lots of fish.

If you leave when you have lots of money on the table, you're retarded.

[fubaroz]

I've just recently started using pokerace hud...a lot of times you jump on a good table then you start not getting paid off anymore...the nits have moved in....pokerace hud makes it easy to see them , if 7 of the players are in the orange....time to get out...you look up and none of the guys on the table are over 25% VPIP you can find a better place to play...

[dirtylobster]

[ QUOTE ]
I took the money and ran!! Later I wondered if that was the right move. I felt like such a huge win in such a short time was pure variance -- so be happy and leave before the laws of averages catch up to my lucky a$$!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're one of those flush chasers who leave before I get the chance to win back my stack! I'ma kill you!!

No but seriously, if you don't think the table is profitable for your style and you just happened to win a large pot I guess it's ok to leave.