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View Full Version : £50NL 6max: Flop bottom set (again!!) on drawy board


OtZman
02-19-2007, 02:15 AM
Another bottom-set-on-drawy-board hand from the £50NL tables. I've no stats or other reads on villain. I was 24/13/1.9 over 134 hands at this table at the time. Please take into consideration the somewhat larger rake on the £ tables that had been deducted from the pot when I played this when looking at my flop and turn bets. What do you think?



Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
Hero: $77.14
UTG+1: $115.15
CO: $50
Button: $76.45
SB: $69.20
BB: $19.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($6.25, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4</font>, CO calls, BB folds.

Should I have bet more here against two opponents? Maybe even against one.

Turn: T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($14.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $11</font>, CO calls.

River: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($36.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO is all-in $33</font>, Hero calls.

Ok, that diamond is a real mood killer. I check here, hoping that villain will try to bluff at it some of the time with a worse hand. Should I just c/f and get over it?

Results:
Final pot: $102.25

Genz
02-19-2007, 02:40 AM
I bet more on the flop. Make it 6. As soon as the first opponent calls, the 2nd gets quite good odds on the call with a draw. You should try to reduce that effect as much as possible.

River card sucks. I still call, though. Villain has played the hand like a draw. But many passive opponents will play this the same way with AK, AQ or 2pair.

Sneds9
02-19-2007, 11:17 AM
Does anybody like a small blocking bet on the river?

You don't REALLY want them to bluff on the river as you have no idea whether you're beat or not. It's a tough spot because you induced a bluff, but dimonds could easily play like this too.

Only induce a bluff when you actually want one.

Agreed to betting more on the flop $5.50/$6 is good.

SnappyJoe
02-19-2007, 11:48 AM
Preflop is standard. Raise flop to 6$. Turn is good. As played fold river.

Sir Winalot
02-19-2007, 12:09 PM
Higher rake, huh? May I ask what you we're doing on these tables then?

Pot flop, pot turn and shove river.

As played, I think it's close, but river might be a fold. There's not too many hands you beat and his hand looks a lot like flushdraw when he calls turn.

Splossy
02-19-2007, 01:26 PM
"Ok, that diamond is a real mood killer. I check here, hoping that villain will try to bluff at it some of the time with a worse hand. Should I just c/f and get over it?"

What would be the point in inducing a bluff only to fold to it?

I think it's a tough call. I'm fairly sure you're beaten. Bigger bets on the flop and turn might have done the trick if he was drawing.

Not so sure about pushing the river. Which hands that lose are calling that bet?

AceLuby
02-19-2007, 01:35 PM
If you checked intending to induce a bluff than you have to call because you've done exactly that.

I think a $10 bet here would be best. Villain isn't raising a whole lot of hands you beat on the river, but will push if checked to. Granted, we'll be getting good odds, but he's telling us we're beat if he raises. I think it's a slightly less variance move where if called you win $10 and if raised you lose $10 instead of $30. At least in a tourney it would be a lot easier fold.

Also, pot the flop and turn.

OtZman
02-19-2007, 04:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Higher rake, huh? May I ask what you we're doing on these tables then?

Pot flop, pot turn and shove river.

As played, I think it's close, but river might be a fold. There's not too many hands you beat and his hand looks a lot like flushdraw when he calls turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
The competition is a bit softer at the £ tables, so I think it more than makes up for the somewhat higher rake. Also, with rakeback the higher rake is reduced somewhat.

Ok, so seems like I should've bet pot on both flop and turn, that would've given villain worse odds. What do I do after that on the river? As I see it, we have three options:

1. Check and try to induce a bluff, and then call.
2. Shove.
3. Blocking bet - I suppose if I bet pot on flop and turn there is no way I'm folding the river anyway, so a blocking bet makes no sense.

As I played it, with smallish flop and turn bets, my options are:

1. Check/call - Probably not the best play.
2. Shove - Perhaps not that good either, would've been a better move if I had bet more on the flop and turn.
3. Blocking bet/fold to raise - This sounds like the best option when I played the way I did.

Thoughts?