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b2l_cricket
02-18-2007, 10:09 PM
One of the tips in Baluga's post was to get more money out of made hands by betting more. This caused me to think about whether one of my common lines was good. I don't use this line every time but i do take it regularly.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
hero: $91
CO: $35.15
Button: $19.75
SB: $38.15
BB: $296.17

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $1.5</font>, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif ($5.25, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $3</font>, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($11.25, 2 players)
hero checks, Button checks.

River: 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($11.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $7</font>, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $25.25
<font color="#ffffff">hero Shows Ad Qs</font>

Villan had KTo here.

Ok, this hand is not the best example, i think it is a much better line when i have postion. I couldn't find an example where i had position quickly. I think the line generally works better when checking behind on the turn. Anyways, i always thought this line was one of the best ways to play this type of hand because you get value from worse hands that probably would have folded to a turn bet. When you use it in position you get a lot of people to lead on the river with hands they would have folded to a turn bet. You lose value when villain has a hand like AJ but i think you gain enough value when they have weaker hands to make up for it. Baluga's post made me wonder about whether my logic is ok here. I have also tried experimenting with river bluffs out of this line against opponents i think are paying attention and have seen me take the line with top pair type hands. I think that can work to against the right villain.

Gelford
02-18-2007, 10:18 PM
OOP I find it meh


But in position the reason you might want to use it is extraction. Let us say you hold AK on a K high flop. OK, so you cbet, that is nothing spectacular and Villian calls .... so what ...

Now the thing here is that Villian either is behind or has you crushed. If he is behind, then a turn bet might just lose him, while a turn check signals weakness and he then might decide to either bluff river or actually call you with middle or button pair, while he would have laid down his hand if you had bet turn strong.

Else he has you crushed with a set or similar, but then you practiced potcontrol and got of fairly cheap with no turnbet to inflate pot. But the potcontrol part is a bonus in my opinion, the extraction is what is important and often overlooked.


And with regards to your hand, actually with top pair on a king high board, then it is a good line, but top pair on an ace high (dry) board. Well there is more chance of a weak ace just paying you off, so here you are more inclined to just bet all the way.

DWarrior
02-18-2007, 11:49 PM
you should raise more pf (to 4xbb) to narrow down pf ranges better. Also c-bet more on the flop.

River c-bet is good as standard play I think. I think in congruence with baluga's post, you can bet closer to 3/4 pot vs bad villains since it'll be a c-bet; whereas vs decent players you'd want to bet between 1/2-3/4 since it'll be a blocking bet.

I think applying balugawhale's advice here would be betting $8. I'd normally bet $7 here before, but $8 will get called just as often. I think that's what he was saying.

Piece of Cake
02-19-2007, 12:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]


Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $2.0</font>, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif ($6.75, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $5</font>, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($16.75, 2 players)
hero checks, Button checks.

River: 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($16.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $12</font>, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $40.75
<font color="#ffffff">hero Shows Ad Qs</font>



[/ QUOTE ]

I think this line is fine though. Unless you know you can take this guy to value town with just top pair.

BalugaWhale
02-19-2007, 01:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $2.0</font>, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif ($6.75, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $5</font>, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($16.75, 2 players)
hero checks, Button checks.

River: 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($16.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">hero bets $12</font>, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $40.75
<font color="#ffffff">hero Shows Ad Qs</font>



[/ QUOTE ]

I think this line is fine though. Unless you know you can take this guy to value town with just top pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I think applying balugawhale's advice here would be betting $8. I'd normally bet $7 here before, but $8 will get called just as often. I think that's what he was saying.


[/ QUOTE ]
bingo.