50NL, KK overpair on wet flop facing CRAI vs TAG

[_TKO_]

Villian is 22/18/4.25. I played a hand against him where I flatcalled a preflop raise and flopped a set. I raised his $3 cbet to $12 and he called on a twotone flop of 973. He check/folded to my turn push of ~$30 on a blank turn.


Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $142.20
UTG+1: $102
CO: $65.55
Hero: $61
SB: $43.20
BB: $51.05

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $2</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $5</font>, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($10.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises all-in $97</font>, Hero ...

[DWarrior]

raise more pf obv

Bet more on flop

Don't know what to do vs push.

[WarhammerIIC]

First, you should be raising more preflop.
Second, looks like a set that's scared of getting drawn out on. Could be 88-QQ as well. Without a specific read (i.e., would he reraise with TT-QQ? preflop), I'm probably going to have to fold. I always want to call this, and I always get shown a set.

[Gelford]

I'm guessing he is either pushing a flushdraw or an overpair.

He might be frustrated with you though.

Finally he might have a set


All in all with that much dead money in the pot, I would call, it might be a set, but against everything else it looks like 50-50 and against a flushdraw we might even have a redraw to the king.

Call

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
raise more pf obv

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard this alot. What should I be raising to in this spot?

[weknowhowtolive]

One thing I'd say is...with only 1 person below the buy in, I think I'd switch tables.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing I'd say is...with only 1 person below the buy in, I think I'd switch tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I like money.

[Gelford]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise more pf obv

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard this alot. What should I be raising to in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, it is a standard comment here at uNL, raise more pf, but it depends as everything in poker.

Here is my view on the matter, I might be mistaken, so I'd love feedback. What it depends on is your reraising range, if you have a wide 3-betting range and often repop in position, then smallish bets are not bad, you will be playing a lot of pots and you do not wish to play for stacks every time, in a hand like this .. if you fx didn't have a strong hand, then you could go cbet and fold to the reraise.

Next hand you are repopping again. etc ... the thing is that you are leaving yourself room to play poker and manuveur.

This is a difficult way of playing poker, you need skill and reading abilities.


If you on the other hand have a small 3betting range, then you want to bet bigger, since you do not want to give to big implied odds. So you might want to bet pot or slightly more.


So it is a balancing act of raising ranges and raise sizes.


Also note that the reason that you can raise smaller is position, you want to put in a healthy raise OOP.


Finally to end it all, you can not have a to small reraising range like the classical AA-QQ with perhaps AK like it is written in all the books as villians can speculate in outflopping you combined with stackage.

[weknowhowtolive]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One thing I'd say is...with only 1 person below the buy in, I think I'd switch tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I like money.

[/ QUOTE ]But what im saying is, you have people playing OVER the $50 buy in which means they are making money. Maybe they are getting lucky, I dont know, wasnt there to watch the table. But with 4 others making money its probably not going to be nearly as easy for yOU to make money.

[Gelford]

Nah, it shouldn't be the stacks at the table that determine whether you sit or leave, but the players. If they all are 22 tags, then it might be better to leave, ... on the other hand if the two large stacks might be donkish players that have hit a lucky hand.


Take a few orbits and then leave if it is boring/though else stay.

[Triggerle]

Your pf raise should be pot sized, which would make it $7. At least it should be 3 times the amount he raised, which is a rule of thumb to make it close to pot sized ($6).

With a hand as strong as KK it should be even more because it is a value bet and also to deny him a call for set value. To prevent a call for set value with effective stacks of 120BB it would amount to a raise to something like 18BB ($9).

For value you bet as much as you think he will call. This is read dependend but might be as much as 20-25 BB or even all-in.

Switching tables should be dependend on the players' abilities and style (are they all though TAG players or donks who have been lucky?) and not on stack sizes.

[marvin_1935]

i raise to at least 7 pf. his range is really wide here. of course he could have a set, but i think A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif or something similar is more likely. he could be doing this w/ 88-AA so i like a call. this huge over shove is NOT indicative of a hand that's trying to get called and extract value.

[DWarrior]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise more pf obv

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard this alot. What should I be raising to in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, it is a standard comment here at uNL, raise more pf, but it depends as everything in poker.

Here is my view on the matter, I might be mistaken, so I'd love feedback. What it depends on is your reraising range, if you have a wide 3-betting range and often repop in position, then smallish bets are not bad, you will be playing a lot of pots and you do not wish to play for stacks every time, in a hand like this .. if you fx didn't have a strong hand, then you could go cbet and fold to the reraise.

Next hand you are repopping again. etc ... the thing is that you are leaving yourself room to play poker and manuveur.

This is a difficult way of playing poker, you need skill and reading abilities.


If you on the other hand have a small 3betting range, then you want to bet bigger, since you do not want to give to big implied odds. So you might want to bet pot or slightly more.


So it is a balancing act of raising ranges and raise sizes.


Also note that the reason that you can raise smaller is position, you want to put in a healthy raise OOP.


Finally to end it all, you can not have a to small reraising range like the classical AA-QQ with perhaps AK like it is written in all the books as villians can speculate in outflopping you combined with stackage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just re-reaise pot all the time, I dunno. I don't agree with re-raising smaller with a wider range, the whole point is you want them to fear it and fold. Also, people play so scared after a 3-bet that you want to build a nice pot to steal, also you don't want to have to re-raise your big hands small like OP did, because when you re-raise people put you on big hands and so when you actually have them and people flop sets, you get into bad shape.

OP: re-raising to $5 after a $2 bet and full stacks is effectively min-raising. This is an easy call with PP because you got ~$45 behind, so he's getting like 15:1 implied odds, on top of ~3:1 pot odds.

I think you should 3-bet at least $7, that way you decrease his odds to chase and also get a bigger pot to steal.

[Gelford]

I also usually go pot, but I believer that you can go smaller, if you know what you are doing. But at uNL ... yeah ... there is not much reason for it.